2012 se Stalling at red lights

[DoubleD]

Title says it all, seems to have a lack of power at times as well. I did a little research and at first thought my issue was the fuel pump, so I ordered a cheaper one off Amazon. Then I continued to look and people have the stalling issue at red lights when their IDLE AIR CONTROL VALVE.
I was thinking I can go into both the fuel pump and the idle air control valve and clean out the connections and put some lithium grease on and see if it's just a connectivity issue.
If not, I can't seem to find an idle air control valve for the 2012 se. Hopefully I can find a reasonably priced one around. The price varies wildly on some websites and they have to be shipped. Amazon doesn't seem to sell it anymore.
Does it sound like I'm heading in the right direction?

 

[DoubleD]

And I just bought this, hoping it fits. The chart it says to cross reference isn't working https://www.ebay.com/itm/174999782917

 

[LionsTooth]

And I just bought this, hoping it fits. The chart it says to cross reference isn't working https://www.ebay.com/itm/174999782917

Try RockAuto.com....they usually have several parts in a price range.

 

[DoubleD]

I can't seem to find an idle air control valve on there or at my local dealership. They said it's part of my intake manifold?
I ordered a Haynes manual off eBay, waiting for the download code so I can really dig in and see what I can do

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Is your transmission downshifting appropriately? If not, you'll stop at a light and be in 3rd or 2nd gear and then stall out. I've found that my 2016 SE doesn't like coasting to slow down, as if it needs the signal from the brakes to engage a clutch and downshift. Just a thought I'd throw out there.

Phil Forrest

 

[DoubleD]

It's a manual transmission but you may be on the something
I borrowed my neighbors funnel and explained what's happening: he said if I'm coming up on a fast stop and throw it into neutral, the motor is going so fast with no clutch engaged and just.. stalls?

 

[DoubleD]

Well I changed my MAF sensor which was really easy, but I'm having a hard time finding the MAP sensor..

 

[Handy Andy]

For the Year yours was made...

​

The MAF is in the snorkel that is by the air filter box, the MAP one is on the manifold, you look thru and off to the right in the "Gap" between Cylinders' 2 and 3 - there is a "shelf" of where the intake flattens out and the manifold breaks into 4 ports that curl back towards the engine and go into the cylinder head - and this "flat" is also by where the PCV valve hose goes...

 

[DoubleD]

You are the man! Thanks for the help but I still can't find this map sensor and it's driving me nuts.
I can't find the air intake control valve either..

 

[Handy Andy]

If my memory serves correctly - the Fiesta did away with an IAC valve - Focus - not so much.

This changeover came about from about the time that Ashton Martin of whom was "bought out" by Ford. was "reconstituted" as a viable entity for Luxury cars in Europe (Premier Automotive Group) thru UBS AG - then bought by Prodrive - so in this time frame - Ford implemented several changes including the upgraded "slat" grille from their sloping slot grille - so the airbox, the MAF sensor, and the IAC were "removed"/Deleted, and they kept the throttle body but now use software engaged idle controls thru the throttle plate versus a secondary air support system for idle.

So, does your Fiesta have the sloping front or do you have the more Aston Martin look of Grille slats?

That may be how this happened and is why you can't find them - they simply were modded out.

I'd like to see the "whole motor bay" - I'm thinking they keep the IAC BELOW the throttle body, on the manifold - but in mine the IAC isn't there - it is taken up by a EVAP port and the Brake Booster vacuum line

For example - Ford Focus...about 2012...

The MAF is at the outlet to the "snorkel" so it looks at incoming air volume - the MAP being a vacuum monitor - is on the manifold PAST(behind in the engine side) the throttle plate.

My Fiesta...

Notice they did away with that MAF sensor...

On my FIESTA the MAP took over the main function of the MAF - as a mod they did to reduce the sensors used because they modeled the software to take over that MAF sensor - and partly explains the tightness the PCM is when it comes to making mixture or injector changes - many wont work because they force the PCM out of it's little box of emission operation character.

The EVAP and Brake Booster line is about all they let get past the throttle plate as far as air idle quality variables ... and even then they are quite stringent on their operation.

 

[DoubleD]

I have the sloped front one.

 

[Handy Andy]

Thank you...

I don't think you have the IAC valve

The MAP Sensor - to get at it, you'll have to remove the snorkel and throttle body and a small bracket to expose the map sensor tucked under and just to the back of the throttle body.

 

[Handy Andy]

To help understand this...


The EVAP is a pulse duration of venting from the Fuel tank - EVAP canister in the back.

The Brake Booster uses a vacuum regulator (that two bumpy thingy) to not only allow air to get pulled from the booster chamber to help with power assisted braking - any extra vacuum presence can be also pulled during high deceleration events and slowing down - downshift moments - this extra vacuum volume can get pulled from the air snorkel hose to the snorkel extension - so they no longer needed the MAF sensor - just MAP and use software to change the pulse lengths of fuel and EVAP and the manifold gets "purges" of heavy combustibles (lean mixture) and throttle (body) angle, using this method.

To help with Idle then, the EVAP solenoid is used (pulse train modified) to help control mixture.

So, if it's stalling - the MAP and the EVAP should be inspected even replaced or cleaned.

Be careful with the MAP sensor cleaning - some cleaners are too aggressive - so be sure to use one that is sensor safe.

There is also another issue that deals with the PCV valve - the valve location is by the Cylinder #2 intake - and uses a hose that goes directly to the intake manifold - another hose is on the valve cover and pulls / vents air to the airbox ( Air Filter box ) keeping or trying to keep - everything at normal atmospheric pressure so you don't have gaskets blowing out when they shouldn't - but it's the LOCATION of the PCV valve - being just above the oil level in the crankcase - is the concern.

When you have too much oil or the PCV valve is damaged, is can allow manifold vacuum to get sucked directly without regulation and can pull oil out of the engine into the manifold generating a flooding stall condition - enough blowby to force the motor into a stall because there's more oil than fuel fumes to burn - you'd see this and smell the oil getting reburned in the exhaust on specific moments of this.

You may also see this consumption in the drop of oil level on the dipstick when you check it.

This is a 2012 - so if hoses are weak - they can easily get crushed - closed pinched off because the vacuum in the manifold is very high and if the inches in Hg are high enough the hose collapsing can generate a stall because the engine is expecting a given amount of mixture - is not getting into the motor - leaving you with a leaner than expected mixture but it can easily be restarted so it's not that - "type" of moment. (one that can set an MIL light)

The opposite can also occur, when you decelerate the engine is high vacuum - so it is also why the EVAP hose is nylon - rigid enough to hold up - but if it's cracked, the evap can't pull enough fumes from the gas tank - and that generates another lean mixture moment and stalls too (eventually can set a MIL light) - just so you know.


Just making you aware of some things that you may not think about in the diagnosis.

 

[DoubleD]

You have given me a lot to look at handy Andy and I love it man!
So, I don't think I have a MAP sensor or an IACV on this fiesta. Can't seem to find anything around that throttle body, on it, on the hoses, or the manifold that looks remotely like the MAP sensor I bought. I even followed all the electrical.
So here's a picture of my new MAF sensor installed right between the air filter and throttle body.
Here's two front shots where the throttle body was


And he's two underside shots


See anything I'm missing? I'm going to look into the other hoses and the EVAP. Gave me a lot to think about Andy, I appreciate it

 

[Handy Andy]

What is here?

 

[DoubleD]

I'm not sure.

 

[DoubleD]

I was looking around and found this:
Ford Fiesta4 Cyl 1.6L TIVCT PFI Sigma; 5-Speed Manual Transmission - B5/IB5; Front-Wheel Drive (Left Hand Drive); Mid Version - Car
I'm not sure if that helps.
I'm thinking of buying this

Or is there a way to clean that sensor in the middle? With QD electronic cleaner?
I also noticed some oil on the backside of the flap in throttle body. Fresh, since I just did the oil. And it gets very hot around here, I wonder if it's sucking some oil like you said?

 

[Handy Andy]

The two pics you just sent, that is your starter and starter solenoid.

 

[Handy Andy]

Knowing you have a "manual" versus the Auto (transmission) - you do not have an EGR valve either - which is a requirement for Autos.

 

[DoubleD]

Thanks for all the help handy Andy.
I drained about 4/5 qt of oil took an hour drive and had no issues stalling.
I think I'm close to 4.1qt oil. Hoping this holds out