What to look for - Purchasing a used 2019 Fiesta S Manual

[Devastate]

Hey all,

New to the forum here so I guess this is my chance to say hello. I unfortunately have had the displeasure of needing a new car in this current auto market. (So wild on the pricing right now, this car sold for more now than it MSRP'ed for in 2019)
I am purchasing a 2019 Ford Fiesta S Manual Transmission with 16,000 miles. I got it VIA Carvana. I will be picking it up in a few days. My question is to you vet fiesta owners, any recommendations on things to check when I pickup the vehicle?

I also had another random question, Are there people who have put bolt on turbos on the Fiesta S? Or is it really not possible?

Going from a 2006 Mercury Montego Luxury. Not stoked on the small size, and lack of luxury features. But I am stoked that I now have a manual car that cat get 40+MPG on the highway, especially given the announcement that OPEC is cutting production by 2% and the gas industry is saying 12$ a gallon in the USA in the coming years. I feel small gas econo cars will be making a big comeback in the next couple years. Or at least I hope so.

 

[Handy Andy]

40MPG? Well, it might get that - but the vehicles around you will be zooming by totally ignorant of OPEC, MPG, anything in Front of Them (with Collision avoidance) or you - in their way.

Don't worry, I'm on your side, I drive a 5-speed Manual 2018 Fiesta - so I'm well familiar with what you can get, just can't guarantee it.

So, let's be realistic...

How many miles do you drive to work?

• Manuals are more efficient in specific areas of acceleration. How? If you're a highway driver, you're going to find the Automatic tends to take the lead on those longer commutes by Gearing ratios - but in city and suburbia where Traffic Lights reign as the "Great Equalizer" of pace and timing of traffic flow - you just might come out ahead.

The one thing that makes Manuals appealing - is more for those that wish to be in control of their vehicles driving and drive line - not second guessed by a Chip under the Hood making the Car do something else instead. The MPG part is what the Chip is trying to do at any given moment - you're superseding it, by placing the command of such matters in your hands. Marshmallow Drivelines be (Gosh Darned It!)

​

Will you use Headlights in Morning commutes, or it's A/C in Stop Start traffic? For What It's Worth - how much load are you willing to sacrifice to bear as a burden so the motor can be focused (sic) on spending its energy keeping you mobile?

To expect 40MPG is not wrong but, be ready to make changes to habits you once had in your previous car.

Do you know your Tire size? (195? x 16" 185 x 15" or) something even more exotic like 225 x 17"?

Alignments? Gotta' keep the rubber on the road - yes, but less tire scrubbing from maligned wheels or oversized and thinner than safely can be used in Pothole Country tires on some oversized rims - adds a hit against the level of performance you'll need to attain that 40MPG figure let alone above it.

​

To help - the best transfer of energy is done using the narrowest tire that can handle the weight rating - with the best height of sidewall (percentage of tread width like 65 to 75 series tires) that allow the tire to "bend" the tread to follow a narrower path to provide less friction yet able to provide the best amount of braking and steering control possible - with a light to medium weight rim (Steel can do this but exotic alloys that "bend" is not what you want to trust you and your car with) narrow-width 6" with a rim size 15" might look silly - but lets you squeeze in a 185/70 x 15" rim and provide a much more comfortable ride with less jarring and road noise and possibly a MPG boost from the slightly overdiametered (*a) tire size for rolling affecting the overall top gear ratio - which most Fiestas run as 4.07 Manual BUT 4.55 Auto (See above)

It's ok to try and shoot for the Moon, you just might not always get there.

(*a) Note:
To say Overdiametered - I'm trying to define more about the diameter of the tire than to say "Oversized" which can lump in other factors that are not to be used with the thinking that these larger numbers can also apply to width and height...

There is a tradeoff to the effort to attain something - with the largest effort being to reduce rolling resistance. Too large of a tire can get you into trouble - too small of a tire accomplishes the same thing. You sacrifice torque as to offset the distance travelled in a larger circle (diameter) - which can affect mileage, your odometer and the clutch - which all are trying to give you what you're demanding the vehicle to do. Thinking to use a wider tire Rim width - is not what is meant here. The approach is to lessen friction - which that resistive force works against any effort of obtaining MPG values.

 

[Devastate]

40MPG? Well, it might get that - but the vehicles around you will be zooming by totally ignorant of OPEC, MPG, anything in Front of Them (with Collision avoidance) or you - in their way.

Don't worry, I'm on your side, I drive a 5-speed Manual 2018 Fiesta - so I'm well familiar with what you can get, just can't guarantee it.

So, let's be realistic...

How many miles do you drive to work?

• Manuals are more efficient in specific areas of acceleration. How? If you're a highway driver, you're going to find the Automatic tends to take the lead on those longer commutes by Gearing ratios - but in city and suburbia where Traffic Lights reign as the "Great Equalizer" of pace and timing of traffic flow - you just might come out ahead.

The one thing that makes Manuals appealing - is more for those that wish to be in control of their vehicles driving and drive line - not second guessed by a Chip under the Hood making the Car do something else instead. The MPG part is what the Chip is trying to do at any given moment - you're superseding it, by placing the command of such matters in your hands. Marshmallow Drivelines be (Gosh Darned It!)

View attachment 7039
View attachment 7040​

Will you use Headlights in Morning commutes, or it's A/C in Stop Start traffic? For What It's Worth - how much load are you willing to sacrifice to bear as a burden so the motor can be focused (sic) on spending its energy keeping you mobile?

To expect 40MPG is not wrong but, be ready to make changes to habits you once had in your previous car.

Do you know your Tire size? (195? x 16" 185 x 15" or) something even more exotic like 225 x 17"?

Alignments? Gotta' keep the rubber on the road - yes, but less tire scrubbing from maligned wheels or oversized and thinner than safely can be used in Pothole Country tires on some oversized rims - adds a hit against the level of performance you'll need to attain that 40MPG figure let alone above it.

View attachment 7041
​

To help - the best transfer of energy is done using the narrowest tire that can handle the weight rating - with the best height of sidewall (percentage of tread width like 65 to 75 series tires) that allow the tire to "bend" the tread to follow a narrower path to provide less friction yet able to provide the best amount of braking and steering control possible - with a light to medium weight rim (Steel can do this but exotic alloys that "bend" is not what you want to trust you and your car with) narrow-width 6" with a rim size 15" might look silly - but lets you squeeze in a 185/70 x 15" rim and provide a much more comfortable ride with less jarring and road noise and possibly a MPG boost from the slightly overdiametered (*a) tire size for rolling affecting the overall top gear ratio - which most Fiestas run as 4.07 Manual BUT 4.55 Auto (See above)

It's ok to try and shoot for the Moon, you just might not always get there.

(*a) Note:
To say Overdiametered - I'm trying to define more about the diameter of the tire than to say "Oversized" which can lump in other factors that are not to be used with the thinking that these larger numbers can also apply to width and height...

There is a tradeoff to the effort to attain something - with the largest effort being to reduce rolling resistance. Too large of a tire can get you into trouble - too small of a tire accomplishes the same thing. You sacrifice torque as to offset the distance travelled in a larger circle (diameter) - which can affect mileage, your odometer and the clutch - which all are trying to give you what you're demanding the vehicle to do. Thinking to use a wider tire Rim width - is not what is meant here. The approach is to lessen friction - which that resistive force works against any effort of obtaining MPG values.

Hey there,

Appreciate the reply! This is all fascinating information and I appreciate it. I suppose 40MPG might have been a lofty estimate on my part. I never really thought about the whole gear ration aspect of it, so that is actually interesting.

My commute to work is short, only about 5 miles. Mostly freeway, but it's usually 55-60mph.

I'm not new to driving stick, I learned how to drive on a stick and took my test driving stick. Been a while though so I may be sloppy at first. I don't really intend to drive it like a race car, and I think trying to keep a good MPG will be on my mind most times.

As for the tires go, I imagine it has whatever the stock standard tires are on it. Not sure I'd wanna get too extreme with it. I was actually considering getting winter tires for her.

 

[scotman]

I have found the best way to drive the manual Fiesta for fuel economy is to “short shift” it and keep the speed below 70 on the interstate. Stay back from semi trucks and drive with the speed control or a steady foot on the throttle.
I also bump up the tire pressure from the door tag recommended pressures to the max number on the tire sidewall. Maintain a clean engine air filter element and regularly clean debris out of the air box under the filter. I have also found that using a high quality fully synthetic oil like Castrol Syntec or Pennzoil platinum in the recommended grade 5W20 gives you a better fuel economy result. It’s really all about minimizing the friction and maximizing your driving discipline.
I have considered buying a set of low rolling resistance tires, but they have some compromises that don’t have me running to them enthusiastically. Welcome to the Fiesta forum!

 

[LionsTooth]

Say hi to the fairgrounds...hoping IndyCar will return there, one day.

 

[Devastate]

Say hi to the fairgrounds...hoping IndyCar will return there, one day.

Ah yes, state fair park. Really sad it doesn't get used for anything anymore. When I was a kid I remember hearing the races from miles away on weekends. I wish they would turn it into a drag strip or re-do the track or something! Lots' of potential.

 

[Handy Andy]

Just another thought to keep in mind...

Autos have no true "clutch" or direct connect from engine to the road except thru it's conversion system and it's losses.

One, being it has to accelerate using a fluid to pull the whole mess all along.

You don't - the engine Clutch transmission gearbox and differential and the road (well, wheels axles n such)

So Autos lose in gaining momentum

You don't have that as much...

Keep the "Junk in the trunk" - (excess un-needed luggage and weight) - to a minimum - you'll do fine!

 

[LionsTooth]

Althou

Just another thought to keep in mind...

Autos have no true "clutch" or direct connect from engine to the road except thru it's conversion system and it's losses.

One, being it has to accelerate using a fluid to pull the whole mess all along.

You don't - the engine Clutch transmission gearbox and differential and the road (well, wheels axles n such)

So Autos lose in gaining momentum

You don't have that as much...

Keep the "Junk in the trunk" - (excess un-needed luggage and weight) - to a minimum - you'll do fine!

Although my "auto" is not a slushbox, but a true 6-speed gearbox shifted with a dual-clutch by the computer. So my Fiesta gets the same mileage as a manual.

 

[Devastate]

So just a update, Picked up the car yesterday. It's super clean, and feels very tight and smooth. Gotta say, the more I drive it the more I like it. It's way zippier than I anticipated. And the biggest gripe I have is the fact that freeway driving kinda sucks without that 6th gear. And because of that I may opt for a automatic. But to be honest, with the miles so low on the one I got, I kinda dont wanna give her up. Other than that it's a solid ride.

I assume 55-60 MPH on the freeway is about what I'd wanna be looking at doing for max MPG with the manual?

One thing I did that also made me like the car more was take out the rear head rests. HOLY CRAP does that increase the rear window visibility. I'm a habitual over the shoulder looker.
I think she would look sweet with 16in white wheels.

 

[Handy Andy]

What you might find you're more apt to, is shift points and RPM - as you go into that gearbox range - you'll find the low-end gears 1 - 2, 2 - 3 seem to fit right into about 1K to 3.5K (1st to 2nd) with 2nd after that starting about 1.8K up to 3K and 3rd from that 1.8K to 2.8K of RPM with the "die down" of any gear, going to about 1.5K as the LOWEST you want to go to keep it from lugging or poor performance. (37 to 40MPH from 4th to 5th)

Obviously - the slower speeds the highest lower gears, the best performance puts you at a minimum of 1.5K to even get anywhere...

One thing I just wanted to mention, is the Injection of fuel to volume of air the valves take in,

IF you go too low in RPM - there is not enough "draft" in the dual-intake valves to pull the injectors fuel mist in - in Single Overhead Cam's and single intake valve systems from the older days, that drafting helped the fuel spray make it into the cylinder - at even pretty low RPM levels so the cylinder always seemed to get "Washed" pretty regularly with fuel even in city stop start driving.

Now with the dual valve intake - the injector spray needs some RPM to draft in or pull in that fuel vapor to atomize and burn - - because of more air that can get in - the spray needs to make it in too - so the wider air inlet (or volume) means that air travels a little differently than in a single intake port system - so the RPM you need to maintain is higher to help with its carburetion or atomization of the fuel to air mix.

So to make the acceleration better - keep the Gear shift points from dropping below 2K RPM if you can avoid it, this way the engine seems to breathe better - remember it's got two intake valves per cylinder - so there certainly is a lot more air to get in, but the speed it travels is a little slower at lower RPM (as in non-linear - almost logarithmic) - and the time it takes to get that air in is different too - it's variable timing - so the injection cycle is different and you have a torque band that is a little higher in the RPM range then you'd find on some single valve intake systems.

It's why many of today's vehicles are going to GDi Or Gas Direct Inject - there is no injector on the intake side by the intake valves, it's right by the spark plug inside the cylinder - shooting in fuel while it's under compression - which changes the game as well offers its own set of challenges to make it work.

If you ever needed a lesson in experimentations Ford tried, look up Mondeo and some of the techniques, including vanes in the airflow past the intake to act as diffusers - only when the break, they can take out the motor in the process, but the concepts they used to try and disperse the fuel spray to make the atomization more effective was "unique" And - it was why I was not a big Fan of Ford for a long time until they were the only ones left making Manuals - except for the imports, which even then - the waiting lists are still quite long - you might wind up dead from old age before you get elected as having a chance to own one.

 

[LionsTooth]

So just a update, Picked up the car yesterday. It's super clean, and feels very tight and smooth. Gotta say, the more I drive it the more I like it. It's way zippier than I anticipated. And the biggest gripe I have is the fact that freeway driving kinda sucks without that 6th gear. And because of that I may opt for a automatic. But to be honest, with the miles so low on the one I got, I kinda dont wanna give her up. Other than that it's a solid ride.

I assume 55-60 MPH on the freeway is about what I'd wanna be looking at doing for max MPG with the manual?

One thing I did that also made me like the car more was take out the rear head rests. HOLY CRAP does that increase the rear window visibility. I'm a habitual over the shoulder looker.
I think she would look sweet with 16in white wheels.

Yep...on my hatchback the headrests were out the first day. Much better.

 

[econoboxrocks]

Andy and Lion and scotman have been dropping science as usual.
Any car will get better mileage at lower highway speeds. I have a tuned turbo, and if I put the cruise on 60, I'll get 40+ all day. At 80, it drops to just over 31 (though on my last road trip, I got 34, speeding like a maniac. I think it's breaking in). At high speeds, simple wind resistance will hurt your mileage, especially headwinds.

Keep that wonderful manual. Drive it hard, drive it easy, and find your sweet spot. Fiestas are good handling little cars, and other than the bad rep they got for the DCTs (because Americans don't know how to drive them), they're quite reliable.

 

[econoboxrocks]

I also had another random question, Are there people who have put bolt on turbos on the Fiesta S? Or is it really not possible?

I missed this the first time through.

DON'T do that. If you want a turbo, Ford made one. The turbo engine has many significant differences from the Duratec 1.6. It has stronger internal parts to handle the stress a turbo will put on it. Yours doesn't.
For what you would spend, just get an ST and be done with it. A high-mileage ST that's been thrashed for 8 years is still going to handle the turbo better than your engine can. It already has everything installed from the factory; intercooler, the right tune, the handling and braking upgrades...

 

[Devastate]

What you might find you're more apt to, is shift points and RPM - as you go into that gearbox range - you'll find the low-end gears 1 - 2, 2 - 3 seem to fit right into about 1K to 3.5K (1st to 2nd) with 2nd after that starting about 1.8K up to 3K and 3rd from that 1.8K to 2.8K of RPM with the "die down" of any gear, going to about 1.5K as the LOWEST you want to go to keep it from lugging or poor performance. (37 to 40MPH from 4th to 5th)

Obviously - the slower speeds the highest lower gears, the best performance puts you at a minimum of 1.5K to even get anywhere...

One thing I just wanted to mention, is the Injection of fuel to volume of air the valves take in,

IF you go too low in RPM - there is not enough "draft" in the dual-intake valves to pull the injectors fuel mist in - in Single Overhead Cam's and single intake valve systems from the older days, that drafting helped the fuel spray make it into the cylinder - at even pretty low RPM levels so the cylinder always seemed to get "Washed" pretty regularly with fuel even in city stop start driving.

Now with the dual valve intake - the injector spray needs some RPM to draft in or pull in that fuel vapor to atomize and burn - - because of more air that can get in - the spray needs to make it in too - so the wider air inlet (or volume) means that air travels a little differently than in a single intake port system - so the RPM you need to maintain is higher to help with its carburetion or atomization of the fuel to air mix.

So to make the acceleration better - keep the Gear shift points from dropping below 2K RPM if you can avoid it, this way the engine seems to breathe better - remember it's got two intake valves per cylinder - so there certainly is a lot more air to get in, but the speed it travels is a little slower at lower RPM (as in non-linear - almost logarithmic) - and the time it takes to get that air in is different too - it's variable timing - so the injection cycle is different and you have a torque band that is a little higher in the RPM range then you'd find on some single valve intake systems.

It's why many of today's vehicles are going to GDi Or Gas Direct Inject - there is no injector on the intake side by the intake valves, it's right by the spark plug inside the cylinder - shooting in fuel while it's under compression - which changes the game as well offers its own set of challenges to make it work.

If you ever needed a lesson in experimentations Ford tried, look up Mondeo and some of the techniques, including vanes in the airflow past the intake to act as diffusers - only when the break, they can take out the motor in the process, but the concepts they used to try and disperse the fuel spray to make the atomization more effective was "unique" And - it was why I was not a big Fan of Ford for a long time until they were the only ones left making Manuals - except for the imports, which even then - the waiting lists are still quite long - you might wind up dead from old age before you get elected as having a chance to own one.

Dang man,

Ford needs to hire you if they haven't already! Seems like you know more than their engineers! I once again appreciate all the time and effort you put into your post Handy Andy! the information regarding the RPM's and shifting are actually really helpful, I'm like afraid to over-rev it sometimes I feel like I "granny shift" I've been typically shifting around 2200 - 2500 RPM's when just doing normal everyday driving. I was stuck in a particularly bad rush hour this morning on my way to work, and I noticed it was difficult to keep the car crawling at the pace of traffic, It was gonna bog out when I got too low on RPM's. This was kinda annoying but not the end of the world, I drove a automatic for 6 years so I just need to get used to it again.

Once again, super fascinating stuff my man! appreciate your knowledge and insights! For sure gonna look up the experiments with the mondeo!

Are these engines okay being reved out? I feel like I read something in browsing here where someone mentioned that the Duratec 1.6 was designed to be ran at redline.

 

[Devastate]

Andy and Lion and scotman have been dropping science as usual.
Any car will get better mileage at lower highway speeds. I have a tuned turbo, and if I put the cruise on 60, I'll get 40+ all day. At 80, it drops to just over 31 (though on my last road trip, I got 34, speeding like a maniac. I think it's breaking in). At high speeds, simple wind resistance will hurt your mileage, especially headwinds.

Keep that wonderful manual. Drive it hard, drive it easy, and find your sweet spot. Fiestas are good handling little cars, and other than the bad rep they got for the DCTs (because Americans don't know how to drive them), they're quite reliable.

Excuse my ignorance, when you say DCT what is that an acronym for? I assume the automatic transmissions that people like to talk shit about in these?

 

[Devastate]

I missed this the first time through.

DON'T do that. If you want a turbo, Ford made one. The turbo engine has many significant differences from the Duratec 1.6. It has stronger internal parts to handle the stress a turbo will put on it. Yours doesn't.
For what you would spend, just get an ST and be done with it. A high-mileage ST that's been thrashed for 8 years is still going to handle the turbo better than your engine can. It already has everything installed from the factory; intercooler, the right tune, the handling and braking upgrades...

Yeah after looking around the forums I think someone else literally said that exact thing. Oh well, no biggie! Maybe I should just get a older ST with higher miles, but a car like that intimidates me as far as maintenance and repairs.

 

[econoboxrocks]

Excuse my ignorance, when you say DCT what is that an acronym for? I assume the automatic transmissions that people like to talk shit about in these?

Dual clutch transmission. Yeah, the autos people bitched so much about. I think they just don't know how to use them, for the most part. The good news is that they hurt the prices of used Fiestas, so even the manuals are a relatively good deal.

At 120 hp, it's no racecar, but the fun of these cars is in the good handling and solid reliability. Keep your fluids changed, and it will run great for years.

 

[econoboxrocks]

Dang man,

Ford needs to hire you if they haven't already! Seems like you know more than their engineers! I once again appreciate all the time and effort you put into your post Handy Andy!

He really is a big help around here.

Are these engines okay being reved out? I feel like I read something in browsing here where someone mentioned that the Duratec 1.6 was designed to be ran at redline.

Feel free to rev it out now and then. It can take it.
You basically have to, merging onto the freeway.

 

[Handy Andy]

There are some tricks you'll learn using the shift and clutch, but it doesn't need to be all the way in to do this "blip" part.

Hey, take some time and do a touchy feely with the throttle pedal - you'll see you don't have much room to "feather it"

IF you just start to press down, you'll find the throttle easily jumps to about 1.5K right off the bat - with little effort.

So that feathering will take some getting used to - which brings up my next point.

The clutch - I did some hacks to my own clutch switch A and B to get that switch actuator on the "A" side (the one that gives you your takeoff efforts and throttle sensitivity) a little less emphasis.

Found it tends to rise up too much in idle speed while waiting at traffic lights, and in my area everyone "creeps" forward for the light to change - so I have to keep in mind that many automatics - they are texting and letting the car creep and not always paying attention

Manuals are not the kind of car that lets you text and drive - and there is a lot of careless people out there - in their autos, doing just that...

This is just my approach to the Ford throttle takeoff - you can build on your own those techniques they DON'T tell you in the owners manual...

• - in a Manual the clutch pedal when you begin to press it down, idles up the engine - pressing the Brake at the same time - turns this off - in fact the Brake can be pressed - released, pressed to affect this idle up.
• - but when you compare this to the Autos - this switch engages when you put in any gear except Park or Neutral - so it already goes up and adds that sensitivity and low-level torque power you feel in a typical Automatic. But press on the Brake of lift the Parking Brake Handle on that Automatic, it'll want to coast or roll downhill if you don't pull up too hard - just lift to turn on the BRAKE light and you'll feel the coast kick in - it'll just idle down in those two modes and when the Brake lever is pulled up off the stop to light that Brake light but not tensioned enough to engage those rear brakes even when it is in GEAR!

This becomes important in efforts to reduce fatigue and let the motor rev up to pull you from the stopped position.

It also needs to be a reminder fo those in Autos too - that if you press on the brake too long - it may roll back on you then you have an insurance claim to settle if you roll backwards or forwards into someone.

So, when you gently press in the clutch and before the clutch goes all the way out - that idle up will happen. Put it all the way in and let the 1st Gear sync and the begin to release the pedal to put it in gear - you feel that tug and -if you're in safe parking lot - let the thing coast or roll for a few moments in that mode - it will speed up the car and watch that speedometer and Tach, goes up higher in speed and RPM, then goes flat - rises to about 1,200 RPM depending on load and then dies down seeking idle- it will bottom out about 750 to 800 RPM depending on how cold it is during the day, but the thing is calculating the speed to the gear to the load it puts on the vehicle - and once the clutch pedal is let go, this idle up stops and the car just pokes along at that low RPM. Now, push on the brake when that idle occurs, it will die back down.

This process was annoying to me at first, but in winter - you will find this helpful in not having to overrev the engine - you can "walk it out" of a slick patch without having to rev up the motor - puts you in better shape to work slick roads effectively than many automatics can. The car will do it for you (in a way)

During times of torque, the power it needs - like backing up in a driveway or pulling up a hill to start, you'll find the RPM gauge work up into the 2K just from the sensed loading with that switch engaging when the clutch is in the mid-point transition stage as you prepare to "take off"

This took a really long time for me to figure this out when it comes to shift points and speed shifts - now it doesn't bother me as much as it did before.

I look forward to hearing your experiences - I'd love to learn better ways in which manuals work and perform better than autos.

 

[Devastate]

First fill up of gas last night. 322 miles driven. about 70% of which i'd say was highway driving. 9.3 gallons which averages to about 34MPG. not a bad start. That includes a trip from Illinois back to Wisconsin which was about 100 miles of doing 70-75 ish.