New to Ford(s), got questions

[RDodge53]

Howdy, Randy here from Houston. Inherited a 2013 Fiesta Hatchback, would not go into reverse, finally broke down and
pulled the transmission. What a learning curve. The throw out bearing?, top one was broke opened, and one of the shift levers, was bent. Anyway, the counters that came with the new kit has numbers that are supposed to match four of the numbers on the
shift levers, so I learned on the University of YouTube, are all stamped with the same number. None of those numbers match.
Will this be a problem? I ordered the kit from Amazon. Can anyone shed any light on the subject?

 

[Handy Andy]

To help put this puzzle together - are you using a Manual - 5speed or the Automatic and it's a "sport" transmission.

Throw-out bearing is used for Manual - but the actuators used in Autos (top one broke).

Need some help - can you provide a photo or two to show what you're up against?

 

[RDodge53]

Thanks so much Andy, I've learned so much from this transmission I feel like I'm still not sure.
Anyway, it is not a manual transmission, its automatic. It is a 2013 SE Hatchback, and not sure about the "sport" transmission.
The photos show the damaged bearing, and what it looked like when I got the clutch out. The sleeve was split but I did not get a photo of it. I welded it so it would work then thought that wasn't a good idea, bought a new one.

My biggest concern is the counter? that is mounted on either side of the shifting forks. Everything Ive read, and watched mention there should be 4 number on the counters that match 4 number on the shifting forks. If you an see it, there is not matching numbers, and the counters are quadruplets, all the same number.

Will this be an issue do you know? Should I go talk to the Ford dealership? I ordered the new parts in a kit from Amazon. I did not replace the clutch(s). It seems to be ok, and locked like it was supposed to. Cleaned it up and blew all the dust out of it.

I hope this is useful information. I'm retired and got my fingers in so many pies, this being the tastiest so far.

Your input is very much appreciated and i am grateful.

 

[Handy Andy]

It may be easier to just get another transmission and install it - you got this far - the amount of damage from rust and seal issues are two-fold - this may be a loss. Most of what I see is water damage - on one of the actuators is a spade-like tab that pushes and pulls the actuator into a position to either rock back n forth or up n down - as you can see by the shiny metal left behind from their work in making the gearbox even shift into the next gear. The concern comes from the actuator when you took the photo while it was still in the transmission - the rust is what got my concern.

The number issue - once installed you're committed - so the issue is more of the size. These "numbers" are a game of wits and age. The problem comes when Ford decided to close down the line - they Amortized the parts, even down to the Actuators to use up stocks piled in various warehouses throughout the world - so they generated a "Hodge-podge" of assemblies that use parts from various sources that migrated as the years of production ran their course. The "connector memory" comments I made in previous posts is akin to what I'm getting at here...

The numbers are a lot and date so them being all the same usually indicates the same configuration and dynamics (meaning throw, turn rate - gear size and mesh equivalents e&c). IT means nothing if you don't know the sourcing of the parts - just final assembly is this result; like a serial number - but the caution comes from the regions of the world that may have closed down and finished off only to have other regions take up the dies and stamping to continue until final closure of the line

Why am I saying this might be a loss, is due to the spindle on these gears - if the throw depth and the gear used to push and pull were not compromised upon inspection, I'd say go ahead and install the new ones. But the SHAFTS they use on the transmission itself are pretty beat up from the rust which indicates a water-entry (or operation in a proximity to water) signals corrosion - which is why you see the seal results like you have.

IF you try to put these in, the wear on the spindles (cog valley to gear tooth - the mesh) may be too great of a clearance so it would generate error-codes that won't go away no matter what effort you tried - best to hold onto those actuators and or return them and just get a rebuilt transmission - and keep this one for further inspection and learning tool - and use a lot of rags and napkins to keep the fluids and mess contained to the assembly.

 

[RDodge53]

Thank you kind sir. Knew there was a reason I didn't finish it.
The shaft seals were replaced with the new type they recommend, which tells me that possibly those parts were not replaced, maybe I don't know. The clutch was dusty like brake shoe dust, so I'm pretty sure there was no rust, it was way to dry unless setting up for 8+ months dried it up, I could find no sign of a leak anywhere because that was my first thought also, not saying your observation is wrong, anything is possible.

I sincerely appreciate you time and sharing your knowledge. This is a project at this time, if it fails it will go up for sale.

I don't want to dump a bunch of money into it. I know there are fans out there that would be interested in it, just don't want to let it go to waste.

Again many thanks for time.

 

[Handy Andy]

Then to help tie a ribbon on this and let is sail onto a sunset...

The "rust" can be metal filings from the actuators and their "semi-metallic" friction media used - which if left to itself - reduces to rust because of the hotter environment and the bare metal scavenging moisture from the air to complete the reduction.

You having seen the brake dust coated all over it is what brought this to mind.

Thanks for clarifying this - it's just sad to see that how the seals and what you held in your hand for the photo was. To me this is "age related" wear - don't know how many miles were on the Odometer when you got this. But it shows the typical "beat-up" pitting wear found on parts that although part of the assembly - were not load bearing but part of the assembly that does. Although not required to have a finish on it - wonder if the darkening (since I don't have the part in front of me) areas are "etching" left from the metal present in the medial that can produce a "vaporous dust" - reacted to the base metal changing or etching the finish. There appears to be some heating or blistering of one of the outer seals - like a bubbling effect - like heat got to it.

Thankfully this was not needed as a "gotta' get me to work so I can make it work" commuter car - see enough of those that are one-paycheck away from a disaster during my day work - and with things getting more and more unstable - it becomes more paramount in there tenacity to survive as they try to get thru this.

Again, thanks for sharing this - good luck - I was hoping you might have a younger relative Nephew or Niece to tinker with this type of toy to learn from - but it would be hard to endorse just giving a kid a complex machine that is full of toxic materials - unless they were understanding and old enough while willing to learn from the experience.

 

[RDodge53]

I again thank you for your astute observation. It is very difficult to get a thorough view from photos. Someone has been into it before I braved the unknown, the seals on the shafts are not the original factory-installed. Reason for that is University of YouTube has several video's to prove it. LOL!

Now that it is back in the car, I am having trouble starting it. Luckily, there was a thread which discussed the problem almost exactly as mine. My partner in crime sent it to me as I'm not able to get on the job as often as I would like.

The subject turned into the introduction of a "trans range sensor". I did have a chance to check the fuses and relays and found 2 fuses behind the glove box, and after replacing F14, 20amp (Intelligent access module) there were more items that worked that did not before. Electric windows, door locks, and the starter tried to engage, it was spinning. Nothing so far has unlocked the gear shift. The one I have not replaced is F9, (keyless vehicle module), sounds like the pot of gold is just around the bend.
Saints preserve us! I have some Irish, as well as German, mostly English. As my last name Dodge is English and yes distantly related to the Dodge brothers that is part of the Chrysler family of automobiles. Don't know any personnaly..

So I am very optimistic, fully aware of the worst possible outcome, I've been a few places and seen lots of faces outside these United States and that has worked very well for me. I have to say this transmission is on the top 20 in the, "What is this?" category.

The relays on the illustration for the fuse panel behind the glove box had me stumped, there are 2 and room for 6+ more, closer look at the slots for them, there are not contact points. So total relays are R1 (Ignition relay}, and R8 (Battery saver relay, Rear powerpoints). both are present, not tested yet.

I think if one of my nephews and or grandsons were interested I would love to see them in the great big middle of it all. So far there may be a rookie baseball player in 5 or 6 years, maybe sooner.

I am again grateful for the participation you have added to in this forum, and look forward to learning more.

If you have no old men in your village, best it may be to go out and buy one.

RD