Manual Transmission?/Clutch? Problem

[wintertd]

I am now having this exact issue with my 2014 manual ford fiesta s. The clutch will suddenly fail when the car is stopped resulting in complete inability to change gear. Turning the engine off and on will often make it work again (temporarily). Sometimes the clutch/gears will keep failing at every set of lights making driving near impossible. Sometimes the car will run fine all day. The dealership replaced the clutch a few months ago which seemed to fix the issue but today it happened again! Did you find the answer?

 

[scotman]

I am now having this exact issue with my 2014 manual ford fiesta s. The clutch will suddenly fail when the car is stopped resulting in complete inability to change gear. Turning the engine off and on will often make it work again (temporarily). Sometimes the clutch/gears will keep failing at every set of lights making driving near impossible. Sometimes the car will run fine all day. The dealership replaced the clutch a few months ago which seemed to fix the issue but today it happened again! Did you find the answer?

I would return to the place you had the clutch replaced with the invoice in hand. If they did a proper job they would have replaced the throw out bearing and slave cylinder. This shouldn’t be happening with a new clutch.

 

[Handy Andy]

IF you have time, get under the dashboard, look at the Clutch Pedal - follow that arm up into and under that dash.

There are a series of levers - and what looks like switches on them.

The arm of the pedal has a switch, and the switch rests on a bumper stop - that pushes the plunger of the switch in or out. So, if the plunger, or the bumper stop - has something in its path - it can affect the pedal operation.

The Clutch pedal - has or uses a "stopper" and bumper stop - so it doesn't make a lot of noise or transfer noise into the dashboard from the engine running on the other side. It also works a plunger towards the front firewall - that goes into a "Hole" - this is the Clutch "master" - this is where the Brake Fluid from the Reservoir flows into and from - when you press on that pedal - that plunger works the piston on that little machine.

​

There are several things that can go wrong - including a Bad Clutch Master Cylinder (you have to specify this) the photo above is for a 2012-2016 Ford Fiesta model

Below is the SAME Car but from 2017 thru current...

​

So, your configuration may vary but the principle is the same.

Fluid enters in thru a smaller upper tube - has a small "ball" in it - so that when you press on the Pedal - the larger Plunger lever pushes fluid, that small ball - lifts up out of it's seat and stops fluid from going back up that small tube - and forces the Fluid thru that larger outlet towards the Slave.

Now, from what I've gather from experience - the ball in the "ball seat" for the upper hose that comes from the Brake reservoir can dislodge and get filled with dirt - preventing pressure from building - and so the piston moves but no fluid ever really makes it to the Slave Cylinder.

So, once you understand that concept - the Manual Mystic mystery disappears -

You can also have dirt and or a failed seal in the unit - which would cause a leak - so check for that at the firewall - fluid will push out where it's the easiest to go.

The Return spring that lifts the pedal from the down position to return it up - can break or "get sprung" when you push the pedal down, the thing won't return.

So got to investigate what they didn't finish the job on, including a broken hose, a fitting letting in air, or the system has not been bled properly and you'll have to have them finish the job.

 

[TheGinjNinj]

I've been a bad forum member - not returning and reporting.
Since this time, last October 2022, I wound up with something that landed me in the dealership, so I had them investigate it. I've grown to live with this issue, and on finding out the diagnosis I'll just keep the car till it's wheels literally fall off. Both fixes proposaed are worth more than the car, and I don't want to saddle someone else with this burden either (weird history of sold cars in the family weighs into this as well lol but that's for another time haha)

They found that there's one of 2 "fixes" for this issue with the Hill Start Assist.
1- Replace the PCM for $2500, as this fixed the singular previous case they'd seen of this, to correct the potential burnt out or poor signal to release the brakes given, but the signal to hold the brakes works as manufactured. They were able to reproduce this issue themselves at will this time.
2- Replace the whole top to bottom ABS system $2200-2500, the fallback option as if it isn't in the PCM computer, it's in the HSA portion of the ABS.

It affected the front drive side brake more than the passenger side, that is until I replaced the rotors, brakes, and caliper on that side this March 2023, and seems to have evened out the wear a little. Both sides still grab if I stop on a hill, so the perpetual rocking on the clutch is what we do. Car never gets loaned out due to this issue, so that's a plus 😂
Photos below are from March Rotor change 😅

 

[Handy Andy]

Thanks for stopping by with this.

We've known of an issue with "Hill Assist" being a "release" issue, and even heard of a recall on some of the affected ABS units that transitioned from DOT3 Brake Fluid to DOT4 types, which affects the internal proportioning valve that "splits" the braking effort of the two chambers in the Brakes Master Cylinder - into the 4 separate lines, two lines to the front, from opposite chambers - same for the Rear brakes - this, Ford (seems to have) admitted affected only so many that used a range of a serial number - YT video from the UK talked more about this issue but they "rebuilt" them to fix this valving split issue.

This problem wasn't so much the Fiesta, than more of the larger vehicles like the Escape and F-150 SUV's mostly.

Just so you know, the BRAKE FLUID Cover that the FIESTA uses - one denotes DOT3, the other Denotes DOT4 - and BOTH FIT the same container - so there is an interchangeability issue - the DOT3 to DOT4 transition was supposed to be seamless - but the covers being interchangeable - change this story.

Found on 2013 Fiesta S​

The DOT3 and DOT4 fluids being a slightly different viscosity (or even composition) - seems to be the reason for this.

Some of the "local" solutions was to purge the old Brake Fluid - and return to DOT3 - seems that the Valve and the latency viscosity difference of the two fluids - makes this sticking effect more pronounced in specific applications. This effort voids the warranty so remember you're committed to the problems you may encounter in further research.

• How I came to know of this issue was how the "Sticking" made the vehicle "Stall" and using a clutch - while in stop start traffic, can put you in a collision simply due to the Hill Assist - over thinking the situation. IT goes without saying this happened while my wife was with me in the car - so this left a lasting impression on her - Ford versus the Nissan she drives, she's far more selective now.
• One thing I have noticed, on nearly every manual vehicle I've owned from 80's on to now, have had more tension on the E-Brake than is necessary when it's released and can attribute to premature wear on the braking system due to the drag it causes. A simple loosening of the locknut just a few turns to let the lever click 2 to 3 times before the Rear brake shoes get applied - goes a long way in drivability and tire wear.

Some that went to DOT5 got bad results - the DOT5 viscosity is worse than the other two - so the system itself and the Seals not the best in compatibility - makes this matter even worse.

Now, I'm not advocating anything beyond just to bring this to your attention, For changing Brake Fluid to a different DOT platform is not the safest nor best advice to give anyone - but the challenge is there for those that are having similar problems - might want to consider a less costly investment of just changing (flushing) out the fluid to see if contaminates are causing this - then discuss options your your local service station. A liability issue arises from this.

 

[MaggieMay]

I am now having this exact issue with my 2014 manual ford fiesta s. The clutch will suddenly fail when the car is stopped resulting in complete inability to change gear. Turning the engine off and on will often make it work again (temporarily). Sometimes the clutch/gears will keep failing at every set of lights making driving near impossible. Sometimes the car will run fine all day. The dealership replaced the clutch a few months ago which seemed to fix the issue but today it happened again! Did you find the answer?

I am experiencing this problem on my 2004 Ford Fiesta ghia. It has happened twice, clutch disengaged and free wheeling to side of the road, I turned my car off. Road side assist came and when he started my car the clutch was fine. I took to my mechanic who then replaced brake fluid and flushed through. 1 week later stopped at traffic light same thing. Turned car off and on clutch pedal engaged and I was able to drive off. I do not drive a lot and possibly this will start happening a lot as the car heats up now we are in summer. Wondering if replacement is an overkill.

What worries me if I have the clutch system replaced and all it requires is a pin to stop it slipping off, would my mechanic know this. My car is old but still hasn't done 100,000km yet as I do not drive a lot, the engine is good.

 

[Handy Andy]

I'm studying this problem for it has happened - but mostly to those that have Automatic transmissions and are encountering a weak battery causing the solenoids to think "catastrophic failure" and place the transmission in neutral and all you do is rev the motor and get nowhere.

When you have to shut off the car and restart, the flywheel and clutch bearing stop - so that then brings up the issue of clutch to fingers and if the clutch has several years of use on it - those fingers that press the plate using that piston, I wonder if the issues are more of a contamination condition - the pad media that wears off and due to the piston throw - - they bind.

The Piston may be free to return outwards to it's normal retracted position - but if the fingers are weakened - the spring pressure from the clutch plate to the pads is not enough to overcome the sticking

The only way to release that is to pound the clutch all the way to the floor to engage the starter - so that linkage / clearance issue also plays a role here.

The condition of the hoses - if they "pinch" closed using finger pressure easily, the hoses then can pinch closed preventing fluid from returning - then the vacuum the retraction of the Master piston back at the clutch's pivot point - then closes off any form of pull away to use the pull-vacuum pressure left for fluid in the hose to retract the piston or release it from the grab of the fingers and the bind point that is causing this.

The above is a possible scenario and is not considered the "actual cause" unless the clutch and the system can be removed for inspection to prove or disprove this - it's only a guess.

 

[MarcellSVT]

If you have problems with the Power Assist brakes or in that area, the "restarting" of the vehicle can affect the Vacuum chambers ability to reset and release the pressurized fluid back into the master cylinder.