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Five speed manual problems

Shawn

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2014 fiesta SFE
#1
I have a 2014 Ford fiesta SFE with a 1 L eco-boost and five speed manual transmission. Cars been running and driving great until the other day out of nowhere I couldn’t shift into fifth gear or reverse. I drove the car to work that way one time ,on the way home The shifter wouldn’t let me go into third fourth fifth or reverse. I could only use first second gears. i’ve checked the shifter and cables. They’re fine. clutch seems to be good. Has anyone had any troubles similar to this?
 

Handy Andy

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#2
You can't shift up from 2nd or even into reverse but the Cables seem fine?

Does it still shift like it wants to go to the "H" pattern? OR is that H pattern gone? Like the shifter goes way up to the right or left to even get a gear?

Usually this means a service call to the shop. There are two cables that shift the arms, so if it seems "hard" to shift, then it needs lubrication - there's several threads about that around...but if the other cases are with you can't seem to find the upper gears, then the shifter forks, grinding noises howls onto the internals of the transmission - synchronizers - are damaged - that's a service call.
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #3
The shifter will not move to the right to select third and fourth or fifth and reverse with the shift cables connected
 

Handy Andy

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#4
Ok, This means it's serious, can you get under the car and locate the shifter cover plate (a plastic box held on by tabs) removing it will reveal something that looks like this...
1719535092250.png

If you can do this - remove the cover and get at it, and can use a small tip flat-blade screwdriver to pry off that C-clip - this helps to remove or move the larger metal arm so you can squirt some lube to make this pivot point loosen up and let you get into those upper gears.

The lavender colored spot on my transmission is that main pivot and the clip gets remove and kept off to the side while you work that lever free so you can lube it's shaft - then put the clip back on and reattach the cover.

If you can't - get it to that mechanic to help you!
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #5
Yah I already checked that. I took cables cables off down below and tried to shift the transmission from below. The part of the shifter that pivots on that shaft moves freely left and right. It’s where the other cable attaches that won’t move
 

Handy Andy

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#6
Then it sounds internal to the box, will need a service call. The lower small pivot one is how the forks select the gears.
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #7
Yah I already checked that. I took cables cables off down below and tried to shift the transmission from below. The part of the shifter that pivots on that shaft moves freely left and right. It’s where the other cable attaches that won’t mo
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #8
The shaft that goes into the transmission to change gears should rotate and slide in and out to change gears. Mine only slides in and out (no rotation). I have the transmission on the bench and I’m waiting on that special 5th gear puller to disassemble the trans.
 

Handy Andy

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#9
IF possible - could you please posts photos of that work as you try to repair this?

We've been trying to develop a site that helps keep these things on the road as much as possible - since these vehicles are not made anymore - it would help out a lot.

Thanks!
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #10
No problem
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #11
Just a little update. It’s been a while since I’ve posted anything. I’ve been waiting on a transmission specific gear puller to disassemble the transmission. This gear box was working great until one day I asked my wife to back the car into the garage. She claims that when she tried shifting into reverse she heard a loud noise then the car would not shift into reverse. it actually would not shift into reverse or 5th gear. I drove the car like that for about 100 miles then it wouldn’t shift into 3rd, 4th, 5th or reverse. The shift would only move forward and backwards, not left and right. Thinking it would’ve been the shifter I inspected that first. The shifter checked out fine so out came the transmission. I finally pulled the transmission apart It appears to be in good shape nothing broken. Hear are a few pictures
 

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Shawn

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Thread Starter #12
Just a little update. It’s been a while since I’ve posted anything. I’ve been waiting on a transmission specific gear puller to disassemble the transmission. This gear box was working great until one day I asked my wife to back the car into the garage. She claims that when she tried shifting into reverse she heard a loud noise then the car would not shift into reverse. it actually would not shift into reverse or 5th gear. I drove the car like that for about 100 miles then it wouldn’t shift into 3rd, 4th, 5th or reverse. The shift would only move forward and backwards, not left and right. Thinking it would’ve been the shifter I inspected that first. The shifter checked out fine so out came the transmission. I finally pulled the transmission apart It appears to be in good shape nothing broken. Hear are a few pictures
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #13
Form what I can tell the linkage for 5th gear popped off the shifter rod and was preventing the transmission from shifting here are some pictures of what I am talking about
 

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Shawn

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Thread Starter #14
Now I’m waiting on a gasket that had to be ordered and installed before the transmission can be reinstalled
 

tabijan

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#15
Great job with the diagnosis!

How can you be sure it won’t pop out again? Is there a limit stop that’s worn or damaged?

Sixto
2013 SE 1.6 hatchback 135K miles
 

Handy Andy

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#16
Nice detective work, the 5th and Reverse gear - use one fork, but the Reverse gear doesn't "engage" the output-shaft - instead it works the idler gear - which then makes the reverse gear connect to the trans-axle - turning rotating in reverse to the other gears. To help you understand this - you see the gearbox, but the trans-axle is on the bottom - the whole mess is resting on that case that holds it.

The output is the bottom-most gear in the box, that is the pinion gear that rotates the differential gear and is part of the final output ratio by the number of teeth to each rotation turn on the pinion.

  • Gotta' add this... The REVERSE gear is two gears and are using vertical-teeth not helical or hypoid and has one on the output shaft as a straight-tooth one, meshed between 2nd and 1st - and the synchronizer for those two. Note the Idler gear, it's also "vertical" and straight-toothed - so it only meshes with that one idler gear forcing the counter-rotation when it engages and makes that bottom pinion rotate in the opposite direction

IT may be a good idea to locate that bottom flange the Upside-down "L" piece by where 5th and Reverse bottom out and got stuck, that flange uses a bolt to hold a shift pattern plate, where the forks draw their orientation thru and use to give you and your car the typical "H" shift pattern.

Make sure those bolts and that flange are tight! To help the thing rebound back to center - there is a spring in it too - so the forks return to "idle neutral" position the center of the "H" (the crossbeam) so it doesn't keep meshing gears and forcing the box to rotate the gears unless you're pushing into a gear. The shifter uses that draw as a template for the shift pattern.

You are now getting into a realm where the ST and 6th gear patterns are also included in this gearbox, only you'll need to do a complete tear-down to install all the needed hardware and change that draw plate to accommodate the new gear and shift pattern for it. That area is where all the "programming" for it - is done below that plate/flange section right where the shifter bottoms out at.
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #17
Great job with the diagnosis!

How can you be sure it won’t pop out again? Is there a limit stop that’s worn or damaged?

Sixto
2013 SE 1.6 hatchback 135K miles
I’m wondering the same thing. The shift fork for 5th gear keeps it in position left and right. I thought maybe there was something wrong with said shift fork but it seems fine. I guess only time will tell.
 
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Shawn

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Thread Starter #18
I finally got time to put the transmission back together and install it in the car. Everything seems to be working fine so far. Still not sure how it could have ended up like it was!
 

Handy Andy

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#19
That little "L" shaped thing in your photos is part of how Reverse gets pushed onto and back out of being the counter-rotation gear set - the one odd gear, the one toothed in a way to only mesh with another gear uses that "L" as part of the 5th-and-reverse tine that pushes and pulls out the gear using that shaft the forks rest on and turn with.

If you (the others that will see this thread later) look carefully, that reverse gear is "medium sized" and only can mesh with only other similar-toothed gear on the shaft. There is no other gear set of the size - it's designed to allow one gear on the output shaft to mesh with that idler gear and only that gear

Part of any problem with manuals is the easy (or still) rotating set of gears when you have to hit the reverse and still make it mesh - the teeth are straight so it is a little funky to try and make it mesh - right off the bat, even when stationary.

So you have to gently release and spin the gears using the clutch to help the two gears mate up and work. There is no synchronizer on the reverse gear - when the gear set is aligned to sync with forward gears but not reverse. It's part of why the hypoid or slant gears are slanted in the direction of forward travel spin and synced to allow the gears a "window" to mesh the teeth onto the gear and accept torque as it spins up or down. That reverse gear needs to have a gentle nudge from the clutch and shaft spin to force the driven gear to move it's teeth so it can find enough room on the idler gear mesh to mate and mesh together

So to handle that stress of the reverse gear not quite meshing right - the gearbox distorts - that bar the idler gear is on, will twist and bend or move to try and fit onto the only gear it can - but it comes at a price. This can only happen so many times them the end cap - end-shaft bearings that make this float and roll - will wind up needing to be pressed out and a new set pressed in.

So the Reverse gear itself is not designed as the ways and means - but only a method in which to make the car change direction so it can be re-positioned to be driven in another.

It would explain the clank noise you heard and the difficulty in working the gearset afterwards - hopefully the rods that make up the shifter fork set and their forks are not bent to a point where they can't make the respective synchronizer mesh the gears together - if the shafts are fine, remember the pressed in end-cap bearing set has to take on that load - so it will have some noise and vibration from now on, it's usually not a big deal - but keep an eye on the seals for this vibration might mean there's more free-play pressing on the covers and seals.

By what I see you didn't have a lot of shavings and you do have a magnet in there ...
1722180913184.png

So it seems to be in pretty good shape still!

So this means it may have a lot of miles left on it. Just don't try to roll the Odometer back unless the mesh can get burnished to make the reverse gear engagement easier.

To help with that type of diagnostics - during the install - it might need to just fit up the front wheels, work the transmission and use reverse gear to help clear out and burnish off any sort of burr of filings left in that assembly - grind them up to suspend them so they can make their way to the magnet on the back side of the housing (long end of the case behind the rear axle shafts) so they can be held fast there - that takes some driving in warm and hot weather to stir this up to make this magnet see it and hold it. The trans-axle gear has to fling this suspended stuff in the fluid towards it for it to even attract it.

So give it a drive - stop every now and then - stop somewhere, park, then back up and go about your business - like a shopping trip n' such - to ease your wifes' mind that she didn't destroy the transmission and the ease of your mind to let her know you forgive her and you become the superhero of fixing the car (again) so you two can enjoy a date...

1722181814981.png
Or, have to hire this guy to fix those lugnuts
and spend some time doing an overhaul.​
 
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San Antonio
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TX
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2019 Fiesta S Sedan
#20
IF possible - could you please posts photos of that work as you try to repair this?

We've been trying to develop a site that helps keep these things on the road as much as possible - since these vehicles are not made anymore - it would help out a lot.

Thanks!

When do you think the site would be available ?? I'm super interested in it.
 


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