2016 1.6 SE Overheating

[Miniestate]

* I replaced coolant reservoir because the cap top broke off. The rest was stuck.
1st visit the bottom passenger side plastic pipe connector cracked & replaced.
2nd Replaced Radiator and Thermostat (not fixed)
3rd Water pump fins had disintegrated replaced fixed.
4th Had driven 1300 NC/OH/NC it overheated 10 miles from home. The plug on radiator passenger side top blew off, replaced.
5th Same tirp NC/Oh/NC blew up same place and here I am.
They say they pressure tested and exhaust tested water for blown head gasket. Negative
They Gave Up.
I just want to get going enough to get rid of it.
Ideas??

 

[Miniestate]

Adding now I can drive about 10 minutes to hit hi, I can turn off the engine for a 2 or 3 minutes and it's back to the middle. It's definitely is hot, the overflow is bubbling hot.

 

[Handy Andy]

When you replaced the Thermostat - was the "spring side" where the wax bulb is, being mounted inside that spring - facing inward? Towards the Engine? Needs to be towards the "hot side" - with that bubble or bell valve mounted to the top - so trapped air can escape to the radiator and coolant tank.

If you followed a MK6 or MK5 type of "dual outlet" you may have installed the Thermostat incorrectly. The in the 1.6L N/A motor, that Spring needs to be towards the sources of Heat - being the Hotter fluid inside the motor - by the Water-pump so the Spring side actually goes towards the Water-pumps output - the swirling action and hot fluid will open the Spring much more quickly than installing the plug side - opposite of that spring.

​

So if you replaced everything else - and the thermostat was installed correctly - the the only other reason for the overheat is a bad water-pump - requiring more disassembly to replace it and that timing belt.

 

[Miniestate]

Water pump was replaced. I didn't do the thermostat but, it wouldn't surprise me if they shade tree shop.
Water pump vanes disengaged essentially, they replaced it.
I then drove it 1300 miles Ohio and back and 10 miles from home the auxiliary plug top of radiator passenger side blew off. Fixed
I then drove to Ohio again and back, 10 miles from home Same thing.
I then asked the guys how is the pressure released from overflow coolant tank, DunNo...
I read here the small tube off the reservoir goes to back of engine where there's a pin valve thing that can get stuck. It diverts to water pump or something. If stuck will cause overheating? I'll find come back, maybe link em.

 

[Miniestate]

When you replaced the Thermostat - was the "spring side" where the wax bulb is, being mounted inside that spring - facing inward? Towards the Engine? Needs to be towards the "hot side" - with that bubble or bell valve mounted to the top - so trapped air can escape to the radiator and coolant tank.

If you followed a MK6 or MK5 type of "dual outlet" you may have installed the Thermostat incorrectly. The in the 1.6L N/A motor, that Spring needs to be towards the sources of Heat - being the Hotter fluid inside the motor - by the Water-pump so the Spring side actually goes towards the Water-pumps output - the swirling action and hot fluid will open the Spring much more quickly than installing the plug side - opposite of that spring.

View attachment 9331
​

So if you replaced everything else - and the thermostat was installed correctly - the the only other reason for the overheat is a bad water-pump - requiring more disassembly to replace it and that timing belt.

This that valve thing from last post.
bell/bubble valve in the line back at the top of the rear exhaust side of the head - if that valve is stuck shut - air pockets can form and stay there from the pressure and there's no coolant that can flow in there to take heat away - only thru the cylinder head aluminum can the heat be dissipated. The bubble valve is where that smaller hose comes from the rear of the engine that if it's not able to drain out or burp air from that "high spot" in the cylinder head - can put the vehicle right back into the shop from it.

To fix that bubble valve it's a small pen-tip side valve that slides in and out of a larger tube in the orifice that this line mounts to - in the cylinder head - it has to be pressed out - or that pen-tip part just simply removed. There's a cost to this - it will take a little longer to warm up the vehicle because there is now a little-less restriction to the circulating fluid that the thermostat is supposed to do the job for you - that was the purpose of that check valve - to keep the air from forming and give it path out, but keep the fluid behind it from flowing out with that air.

 

[Handy Andy]

Wow, Ok, I see you found an earlier post from me - so glad to know you caught that one.

The "vanes" of the water pump when it failed (woof) oftentimes shred and gouge some of that hole the pump shoots water thru once it's been thru the pump.

Because that hot water is recirculated all the time back thru the block - comes back to the water pump - it's accelerated and shot out past that thermostat - when and if the water/fluid gets too hot that thermostat opens and the hot water flows in two directions - some back to the block and the rest out to the radiator - I hope they were able to remove and flush out all that debris. That stuff can get caught in the radiator and it'll have to be backflushed to be sure it's not clogged by it.

Ok, so I hope we can rule out the Water pump then, and just stick with the Thermostat possibly in wrong, or stuck closed.

So make sure the SHAFT of that water pump is turning. That's done by the pulley, that rides on that serpentine belt, if that pump shaft can be checked - make sure the belt is tracking on it correctly.

The pressure building may also be from a head gasket seal failing. The compression air from the compression stroke can leak past the gasket into the radiator coolant jacket just from the pressure. As to - which cylinder? You'll need to have some help with this - it requires a compression test. To see which cylinder or cylinders are different from the others - then the head will need some work and may possibly be warped - but that only is if your overheat condition went on too long. It may only need to have a new gasket for the cylinder head to block.

The cause of overheating from this type of condition is from too much air in the cooling system side - not enough water to carry the heat away. It can't cool the motor and take heat away, only blow foam and hot air around

 

[Miniestate]

Sorry for Delay TY
They replaced the radiator and thermostat 1st, after water pump disintegrated. They say they flushed it. I did find bits in the coolant reservoir. I the water pump not working feel, it heats up immediately, not drivable.
It takes 10 minutes driving now, or 20 minutes sitting. If turn off and coast a minute or 2, back to normal, then 2, 3 minutes of driving.
I can look at that stretch belt, but casual inspection from top while I cleaning out coolant tank, running it looked good.
I can do the compression tests, I have those tools.
I am a car guy, have a 66 Mini Cooper S, doin Brit cars since I was 12. I'm 73 and thought I would try a repair shop, probably the 5th time in my life, has never ended well. Just getting tried of working on transportation vehicles.
I haven't even forced it to go, if limp came on, I turned it off.
Let me do
Belt Check
Compression Check
I'm looking get rid of it so the head gasket RR, probably not, Lotta work and special tools, at least the cam lock right.
I will post again Monday Night or Tuesday Morning
TY soo much it helps to have 2 people thinking.

Jim

 

[Handy Andy]

The overheating problem - you said in a earlier post I can now see that the Radiator, Pump and a cracked housing were replaced.

And the system was flushed.

The Pressure tests were negative.

This may be a cracked / blocked block which will take a mechanic some time in tear-down to locate the blockage causing the overheating. IT can be caused by two adjacent cylinders not getting enough coolant but that puts you in a dangerous condition of losing the motor for reselling it. IF you don't fix the overheat - this will be one of many end results for the demise of the motor.

The thermostat is what I would be focused on , see if that is stuck shut bent making it too hot, or broken. Just swap it with another - even take it out to see if the overheat is gone, then we know the true cause of the problem was with the thermostat.

 

[Miniestate]

My compression tester is wrong size, have a friend bringing one today.

TY. Water pump went, but they replaced radiator & thermostat, returned broken to me, I took back, told them to do Water Pump, fixed. Drove Ohio and back NC, overheated in mountains by my home.
Auxiliary plug on rad blew, plugged again and fixed. 3 weeks later, no problems
Drove Ohio and back NC, overheated in mountains by my home again.
Here we are.
I will compression test, look into the thermostat also. I will post Thursday again. Thanks for the Hand Holding.

 

[Handy Andy]

WOOF!
Ok, so you know, when you said in an earlier post...

3rd Water pump fins had disintegrated replaced fixed.

That is catastrophic, and usually means debris is stuck in the motor - it can block passages and even prevent the coolant from exiting and heading off to the radiator to cool off the motor.

IT may mean that the impeller itself - shredding or not, parts still left inside, may be blocking much of the coolant flow in and around that water pump.

It would not be a bad idea to "fish" using any sort of wire or flexible hose or tube, to ensure the path to that thermostat is clean.

So that means a tear-down and I asked earlier about if that thermostat is installed correctly or even if it's stuck or not - you can remove the thermostat and see if the car still overheats. You have someone push a tube or wire thru the holes or passage from the thermostat back to where the water pump sends fluid to that spot. Make sure the impeller didn't leave vanes in there blocking the flow. For that impeller does the work - like a centrifuge it pushes coolant towards the thermostat and beyond - if it is too hot, that thermostat opens and lets coolant shoot out to the radiator thru the hose to it - so the housing and other stuff they supposed to have fixed will have to be rechecked to make sure they assembled it right. This includes that "3-way tie tee" that is where the outflow from the thermostat meets with the upper pipe to the radiator and to the coolant tank. If that is not put together right - it will kink and prevent coolant from going to the radiator.

You also mentioned the mountains - altitude also affects boiling temperature due to the vapor pressure of coolant changes with altitude - much like how water boils at a lower temperature at higher altitudes - so also does the coolant.

Did they use the correct type? And if so, why the boiling at high altitude - but doesn't seem to at sea level or lower altitudes nearer to sea level? This might mean they used a diluted mix, but it's too diluted.

To help, most thermostats for the Fiesta are around 82c to 87c to open up - that's about 185F to about 195F - so it's still pretty low compared to waters own 212F - so if mountain driving - being as hard as it is, makes it boil so quickly - that means the coolant might be too weak of a mix to use safely in such driving conditions.

 

[Miniestate]

TY, I be back next Tuesday to post. I'll be busy and the compression tester available. I will do the thermostat thing.
In the end I'm not going to do a rebuild or head gasket. I'll dump it. It is my only car now.

 

[Miniestate]

When you replaced the Thermostat - was the "spring side" where the wax bulb is, being mounted inside that spring - facing inward? Towards the Engine? Needs to be towards the "hot side" - with that bubble or bell valve mounted to the top - so trapped air can escape to the radiator and coolant tank.

If you followed a MK6 or MK5 type of "dual outlet" you may have installed the Thermostat incorrectly. The in the 1.6L N/A motor, that Spring needs to be towards the sources of Heat - being the Hotter fluid inside the motor - by the Water-pump so the Spring side actually goes towards the Water-pumps output - the swirling action and hot fluid will open the Spring much more quickly than installing the plug side - opposite of that spring.

View attachment 9331
​

So if you replaced everything else - and the thermostat was installed correctly - the the only other reason for the overheat is a bad water-pump - requiring more disassembly to replace it and that timing belt.

Andy took me a bit, compression is 120 on all 4. The Thermostat next.
I noticed if temp Guage goes to 5 or 6 nothch, if go like 60 it comes down a bit but eventually gets hot. It's curious how it gets hot slow, 30 minutes idle, 10 driving. But cools quick.
Anyway the thermostat next, the guys who did are shade tree, replace diag guys. Easily could of done that.

 

[Miniestate]

* I replaced coolant reservoir because the cap top broke off. The rest was stuck.
1st visit the bottom passenger side plastic pipe connector cracked & replaced.
2nd Replaced Radiator and Thermostat (not fixed)
3rd Water pump fins had disintegrated replaced fixed.
4th Had driven 1300 NC/OH/NC it overheated 10 miles from home. The plug on radiator passenger side top blew off, replaced.
5th Same tirp NC/Oh/NC blew up same place and here I am.
They say they pressure tested and exhaust tested water for blown head gasket. Negative
They Gave Up.
I just want to get going enough to get rid of it.
Ideas??

It was the thermostat. I finally replaced it and overheating has stopped.
Perhaps this is what went on..
1) the shop did not orientate the bubble on the thermostat they installed.
2) it worked partially as I drove 600 miles to Ohio and 600 miles back to the Cherokee Mountains where I live but overheated in the last uphill 25 miles home.
3) the auxiliary radiator port plug blew and also at end of trip. Back to shop and they re plugged the aux hole.
4) drove to Ohio again and sameplace coming back, same overheating issue.
5) I began thread here, after checking compression per "Andy" for a gasket issue, 120 all 4. He said focus on thermostat.. TY ANDY.