2014 Fiesta SE 4dr NO 1st gear

[8up]

I just picked up this car and the guy that had it said it didn't want to go into 1st the entire 2 years he has had it. He wore the motor mounts out with it jerking around with 1 mount on bottom broke. The motor runs great even with 220k miles on it. When you try to put it in 1st it make a whine or grinding sound and you can feel it in the handle Its a 5 speed

. . Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[econoboxrocks]

Sounds like you need a new rear motor mount. Maybe others. You might also want to check your shifting linkage after you do that.
If the car has been driven with a broken mount, the whole alignment of your transmission is suspect.

 

[8up]

Sounds like you need a new rear motor mount. Maybe others. You might also want to check your shifting linkage after you do that.
If the car has been driven with a broken mount, the whole alignment of your transmission is suspect.

I have all new mounts I am installing tomorrow. The previous owner claimed he was never really got it into 1st except for a handful of times.

 

[Handy Andy]

Are you having any other issues with "finding" the other gears?

Else you'll have to go under the engine and look for the transmissions gearshift cover and remove it to look at the X and Y cables that work their axis that works the lever and fork assembly.

A big plate and a small tab is what they mount to.

The Big plate is the fork assembly - while the other smaller tab is the lever shift and locator.

The big plate handles the larger torque needed to push the fork past a detent in the synchronizer to drive gear - this detent holds the gear and also gives you the feel that you've engaged the gear using the fork to push the synchronizer onto it. It also keeps the gear meshed with the synchronizer.

As you let up on the throttle and engage the clutch - that frees up the torque that keeps the gears meshed and as you pull it away from that gear - you feel the detent as you work the shifter (synchro and drive gear) together and allows the fork to move the lever to pull the synchro gear (de-mesh) and the drive gear away, (you go into neutral) so then the smaller tab, that "grabs" your correct fork for the shift pattern you have on the shifter - moves to the next set of forks or that fork of the opposite gear (the front and back to shift up and down one gear) you selected.

Why I ask the hunting of the 1st gear - is from THAT gear has a special "lockout" that keeps you from overreving it or the motor when you are in that gear. The motor and driveline can generate a lot of torque - all that horsepower into that gear to make the car begin to move - that "Granny gear" can snap the driveline and even wreck the engine from too much torque it can produce as feedback into the system you don't want - so that is the purpose of that lockout - so you can keep the motor and tranny bolted together without snapping them off. Its' rev and speed (both turning of the wheels and the turning of the driveshaft) sensitive - so it will only engage when it's nearly stopped - else you may have a faulty lockout that will need to be investigated.

So you may need a motor mount[?] it's possible but then you may also need to have a mechanic familiar with Form-factors of IB5 trannys - to see if the gimbals or pivots are ok and the cables are properly "centered" when you are in neutral.

 

[8up]

Are you having any other issues with "finding" the other gears?

Else you'll have to go under the engine and look for the transmissions gearshift cover and remove it to look at the X and Y cables that work their axis that works the lever and fork assembly.

A big plate and a small tab is what they mount to.

The Big plate is the fork assembly - while the other smaller tab is the lever shift and locator.

The big plate handles the larger torque needed to push the fork past a detent in the synchronizer to drive gear - this detent holds the gear and also gives you the feel that you've engaged the gear using the fork to push the synchronizer onto it. It also keeps the gear meshed with the synchronizer.

As you let up on the throttle and engage the clutch - that frees up the torque that keeps the gears meshed and as you pull it away from that gear - you feel the detent as you work the shifter (synchro and drive gear) together and allows the fork to move the lever to pull the synchro gear (de-mesh) and the drive gear away, (you go into neutral) so then the smaller tab, that "grabs" your correct fork for the shift pattern you have on the shifter - moves to the next set of forks or that fork of the opposite gear (the front and back to shift up and down one gear) you selected.

Why I ask the hunting of the 1st gear - is from THAT gear has a special "lockout" that keeps you from overreving it or the motor when you are in that gear. The motor and driveline can generate a lot of torque - all that horsepower into that gear to make the car begin to move - that "Granny gear" can snap the driveline and even wreck the engine from too much torque it can produce as feedback into the system you don't want - so that is the purpose of that lockout - so you can keep the motor and tranny bolted together without snapping them off. Its' rev and speed (both turning of the wheels and the turning of the driveshaft) sensitive - so it will only engage when it's nearly stopped - else you may have a faulty lockout that will need to be investigated.

So you may need a motor mount[?] it's possible but then you may also need to have a mechanic familiar with Form-factors of IB5 trannys - to see if the gimbals or pivots are ok and the cables are properly "centered" when you are in neutral.

First thank you very much. 1st is the only problem. You have given me a mental picture of what to look for. I might get a chance to slide under the cam in the AM before Dr appt. I already have it up on stands where I removed the broken RMM.and took out a broken bolt.

Do you know of any video's on these units? I have not even found the model or name of the 5 speed.

 

[Handy Andy]

The most videos of the IB5 - have been with the Ford's Focus car, but since the Fiesta and Focus use similar "bolt patterns" to bolt them to their respective carriages - Ford kept the design and just transferred the motor mount points and even the differential and CV-axle shafts to match up to their footprints

So the reason for the questions was to see if your shift "H" pattern was skewed to one side or another.

The cables and it's assembly are "length" sensitive and if the plate and the tab are hard to move, the cables themselves will alter their geometry and make a mess even bigger - for now you have lost a gear you need to use to even get up past hilly stops and creep out of places that would otherwise make your wheels spin due to the lack of traction you could have if you keep the rotational speed down (1st Gear reduction versus 2nd).

Just representative, your transmission may vary​

Ok, the whole point of the posts are to see if you are having issues with an effect of what I call scrunching.

That is when one of the cables is stretched or the housing itself is damaged and the bracket that holds the cables so their gimbals can form the proper geometry is off - making it harder to shift

The shift pattern then becomes a tighter "H" pattern - that has most of 1/2/3/4th rather close together with 5th and Reverse - seeming to be in aspect to the others far- away from the other cluster of gearing.

Motor mounts do this too, the torquing of the gear mesh can get to a point where you seem to be popping off gears than to be simply releasing them.

It just may be that the housing got struck and the geometry clearance to make the shift pattern full-figured is not able to be done due to a bent bracket or clearance problems.

 

[8up]

The most videos of the IB5 - have been with the Ford's Focus car, but since the Fiesta and Focus use similar "bolt patterns" to bolt them to their respective carriages - Ford kept the design and just transferred the motor mount points and even the differential and CV-axle shafts to match up to their footprints

So the reason for the questions was to see if your shift "H" pattern was skewed to one side or another.

The cables and it's assembly are "length" sensitive and if the plate and the tab are hard to move, the cables themselves will alter their geometry and make a mess even bigger - for now you have lost a gear you need to use to even get up past hilly stops and creep out of places that would otherwise make your wheels spin due to the lack of traction you could have if you keep the rotational speed down (1st Gear reduction versus 2nd).

View attachment 7651
Just representative, your transmission may vary​

Ok, the whole point of the posts are to see if you are having issues with an effect of what I call scrunching.

That is when one of the cables is stretched or the housing itself is damaged and the bracket that holds the cables so their gimbals can form the proper geometry is off - making it harder to shift

The shift pattern then becomes a tighter "H" pattern - that has most of 1/2/3/4th rather close together with 5th and Reverse - seeming to be in aspect to the others far- away from the other cluster of gearing.

Motor mounts do this too, the torquing of the gear mesh can get to a point where you seem to be popping off gears than to be simply releasing them.

It just may be that the housing got struck and the geometry clearance to make the shift pattern full-figured is not able to be done due to a bent bracket or clearance problems.

Thanks for the continued help. I have had a bunch of teeth pulled and cut out, so it will be a few days until I get back at it.

 

[Handy Andy]

Eww, hope these teeth are not what you're going to use to pay for the possible repair...



On a lighter note...

​

Was also thinking about times I've have shifting issues with cars - and remembered an old love - a Ford Aspire - not a big car, but had a manual 5-speed with a direct cable linkage clutch - the feel of that grab, and the slack, and the quieting of the noise when the cable took up that slack - that's why I loved the mechanical cabling and the direct feel from that, the automakers later decided to use hydraulic to move a piston - generating another type of problem - it took away a feel that I used to help feather the throttle and the clutch to work without stalling in stop and start traffic without killing your legs trying to do both.

Now you have another problem of sluggish clutch or a clutch that won't completely disengage the gear and driveline because it drags it's hoof (shoes) on the flywheel because there is air in the piston and the pressures to force the clutch away (that pivot) is not there - so the clutch and the flywheel drag together even though you may be able to start in another gear - you still have the lockout on 1st occurring, because the clutch won't come to a stop well enough or long enough to engage the 1st gear because of the lockout thinking the gears still turning on the shaft.

 

[8up]

Sounds like you need a new rear motor mount. Maybe others. You might also want to check your shifting linkage after you do that.
If the car has been driven with a broken mount, the whole alignment of your transmission is suspect.

I just replaced all motor mounts today. but 1st gear grinds when you try to put it in

 

[8up]

Eww, hope these teeth are not what you're going to use to pay for the possible repair...



On a lighter note...

View attachment 7654​

Was also thinking about times I've have shifting issues with cars - and remembered an old love - a Ford Aspire - not a big car, but had a manual 5-speed with a direct cable linkage clutch - the feel of that grab, and the slack, and the quieting of the noise when the cable took up that slack - that's why I loved the mechanical cabling and the direct feel from that, the automakers later decided to use hydraulic to move a piston - generating another type of problem - it took away a feel that I used to help feather the throttle and the clutch to work without stalling in stop and start traffic without killing your legs trying to do both.

Now you have another problem of sluggish clutch or a clutch that won't completely disengage the gear and driveline because it drags it's hoof (shoes) on the flywheel because there is air in the piston and the pressures to force the clutch away (that pivot) is not there - so the clutch and the flywheel drag together even though you may be able to start in another gear - you still have the lockout on 1st occurring, because the clutch won't come to a stop well enough or long enough to engage the 1st gear because of the lockout thinking the gears still turning on the shaft.

Hey Andy, I took care of my exhaust today as well as replaced all 3 motor mounts.
I still have no 1st gear just grinds try. All other gears work great.

 

[Handy Andy]

Ok, that grind ... *sigh* ... means that the 1st gear synchronizer and or gear itself - is gone.

The lockout would have "waited" until the gear and clutch stopped or spun in sync enough to get meshed...then you'd have first to start out with.

Can you bleed the clutch and see if there was air in the piston - which would have been keeping the throw-out bearing from fully releasing the gear mesh?

If you can't find any air bubbles, - both the clutch and the transmission are in dire need of servicing - the throw-out bearing is used to bear the load of the transmission side of the clutch to let the gears spin up and down. IF the piston that moved the clutch across this bearing can't move far enough, the clutch still will force the gears to spin. That spin is less on the higher gears, because the friction of the partially released clutch is not enough to force the gear to turn against the stopped transmission. This is a wearing down problem that won't go away. Any kind of drag adds more wear - as well as the piston and possibly the clutch pack itself - needs to be replaced - this is a major job - else you'll have to live with the fact that 1st Gear is gone.

 

[8up]

Ok, that grind ... *sigh* ... means that the 1st gear synchronizer and or gear itself - is gone.

The lockout would have "waited" until the gear and clutch stopped or spun in sync enough to get meshed...then you'd have first to start out with.

Can you bleed the clutch and see if there was air in the piston - which would have been keeping the throw-out bearing from fully releasing the gear mesh?

If you can't find any air bubbles, - both the clutch and the transmission are in dire need of servicing - the throw-out bearing is used to bear the load of the transmission side of the clutch to let the gears spin up and down. IF the piston that moved the clutch across this bearing can't move far enough, the clutch still will force the gears to spin. That spin is less on the higher gears, because the friction of the partially released clutch is not enough to force the gear to turn against the stopped transmission. This is a wearing down problem that won't go away. Any kind of drag adds more wear - as well as the piston and possibly the clutch pack itself - needs to be replaced - this is a major job - else you'll have to live with the fact that 1st Gear is gone.

Clutch was replaced not long ago according to the last owner. I can try to find out if the throw out bearing was replaced as well. As for bleeding the clutch would it not act the same in any gear if that was the problem ? Its starting to sound like I might be pulling it out and opening it up to replace Syncros

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

My biggest concern would be the fact that the issue has been present for 2 years without correction by the previous owner. Transmission issues mixed with time is a bad recipe. If you were able to drain the oil from the transmission and have a look for any shavings, specifically silver &/or brass coloured. If present, I would suggest a junkyard transmission.
There is a potential for a bent shift fork...These cars can be difficult to get into 1st if you are over eager while still rolling. Did the previous owner have a really big right arm? j/k

 

[Handy Andy]

Since this gear issue was not resolved by the previous owner - I have to agree that the "braaap"" you get trying to go into 1st gear is the reason you're having the issue. You simply lost that half of the synchronizer that puts 1 and 2nd gear together.

Now if it freely brapps as you try to push it into that gear without the clutch, then the synchronizer is shot and you'll need a rebuild or another tranny - because the synchro itself is shot - those shavings are milling - mixing about every time you even drive - wearing the rest of the system down.

A synchro lets you go into the gear on a level surface - into 1st gear - so if you can't even push the gear lever towards first without that brapp, then you have a DOA - it will eventually leave you stranded someday because the teeth wore down on a gear spline or a seal will fail from that abrasion and leak all the fluid out.

To help,

The Syncros look at the power side, input shaft from the clutch - engine side.
So, it "sees" speed of the engine - it then compares (thinking of this like a logic problem) the speeds of the input and output shaft - if they are not equal the synchro can't move the gears to form one unit. That is where the effort of speed shifting and the clutch - when it is used, modifies the speed the input shaft or output shaft if it can. You can't have both shafts spinning at two different speeds - so the synchro lets the gears mesh - but it can only do it at one speed.

IN a new transmission, you can push the shifter and the car can move - not by much but the low level of friction in the wheels and drivetrain is enough for the simple spin up of the synchro gear to the input and output shaft it tries to match - it will try to move the synchro onto the gear, so it sees friction - but can transfer energy from that friction - the energy spins the synchro - that is what you can hear, that spin up whine - that is the synchro for the selected gear - arriving to a speed the output shaft is at, and it waiting for the input side to meet the same speed - it's harder on those lower gears to do this for that window of opportunity to mesh is much tighter in speed because of the needed spin range than the other higher gears and their gearing. When you push the shifter lever into a gear, it should not brap or grind, the synchro is doing the meshing - the brap means the synchro is not working

This is what pains me to read about in your messages about this problem. The 1st gear is a main gear the gets you moving from a dead stop - so how did they drive the car before you got it? To me, this makes 2nd the next gear they'd be forced to use, but then ride the clutch to help bring the car up to speed and in doing it that way, wears down that clutch that much faster.

So yeah, the clutch may have been replaced, but since then, a lot of wear and tear has been placed on both 2nd gear and the clutch - to make the car go forward from stoplights, not a good thing to deal with when you're (or the car is) old, young or any age - for cars these days are more like home ownership - than a simple utility providing a function. These days - more are living more hours of the day in their cars than even at home. At least I do - I make deliveries so I see it around me all day I work.

I've also owned cars that have been abused by their dealerships - someone would test drive the car and try to make it do what they want it to do, good or bad. Then leave it saying - "Naw, thanks but it's not for me." - attitude and exit quickly and leave the damaged car on the lot for the next guy. That is where is pays to pay attention to the number of miles the vehicles odometer has on it when you buy new - you don't know if the odo has been played or tampered with.

So to help you get out from under a problem child, the transmission was a 5-speed, it's now a 4-speed and we don't know the condition inside except to worry it might not last much longer, clutch inclusive. The motor is good, but to save the drivetrain, the transmission - needs service - now that 1st gears been found and re-established, the damage is too extreme to recover the transmission and restore it to normal use.

That is what is so sad.

 

[8up]

I will pull it by Sunday. So we shall see whats wrong

 

[8up]

well I have it pulled. I have it down to where I can see the gears . All the gears are cut at an angle except 2 and the look like they might be ground down some.

 

[Handy Andy]

A work in progress - stay tuned

 

[8up]

A work in progress - stay tuned

if I can figure out what has to be where for 1st to be engaged maybe I can figure out the problem. I have spent the last few days trying to find my dog.

 

[Handy Andy]

Ok, I was going to try and provide some guidance to what to do since you've gone and taken the transmission apart.

My experience with transmissions is limited to Toyota and their messes.

However you can also find quite a plethora of Y-Tube videos done up of the various hacks that people have sone for the IB5 tranny. But does little to help you in your current situation.

I hope you can locate your pet, losing a close friend as one is - can be hard.

Wish you well.

 

[8up]

Ok, I was going to try and provide some guidance to what to do since you've gone and taken the transmission apart.

My experience with transmissions is limited to Toyota and their messes.

However you can also find quite a plethora of Y-Tube videos done up of the various hacks that people have sone for the IB5 tranny. But does little to help you in your current situation.

I hope you can locate your pet, losing a close friend as one is - can be hard.

Wish you well.

Thanks after 3 1/2 days he managed to free himself and come home hungry enough to est the whole house.