Things are about to change, new garage loading

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

I had eluded to building a new garage in a previous thread. Well all has come to reality. My house is on the market, for a lot more than I thought it would list for. Although the family farm I am relocating to is shagadelic, it seriously lacks in the garage department. Currently on the property is a 32x32 2 bay + office, about 50-60 years old and suffering from a cracking pad among other issues. My plans are to demo the original building and build a 36 W x 28 D 2 bay, hoist on one side and wash bay on the other. Although this is in the early planning stages, this is what I envision...

Also in the plan is in-floor pex to keep the shop at about 2 to 5-deg above freezing 24/7 with aux heating (electric or radiant) for when I am working. Also I have included in the build budget is a 4 post hoist.
I havent gone beyond having conversations with the engineer (my wifes cousin) or discussing demo (family friend). I plan to document the build here and look forward to hear any words of wisdom on the subject as I fulfill one of my bucket list dreams of building my own shop.
Below is my grandfather's garage, "Reliance Garage" on the main street in Norwich, Ont. long ago. He is standing on the right, his brother on the left. I plan to hang a sign on my garage like the one in this photo. That will be the closing chapter in this build...then I will know it is done!

I have it narrowed down to a few hoists. My choices are all hobby lifts due to cost. They must have 220V pump and trolley jack. I will be using the hoist for mostly my vehicles. I did most of my research early so I could sort out concrete and space requirements. Actually, the hoist will be mostly used to raise the Speed6 on so i dont have to start it and move it out of the shop to do small jobs in the winter. LOL
As for the wash bay, only requirements are professionally installed epoxy floor and a sand interceptor. A settling pit style drain in the floor and sink a small tank or barrel outside to keep the drain runs clear should suffice. Im in the country, no city sewer or water.
I currently have a compressor, bench grinder, drill press, MIG, parts washer among other things. I will be adding a shop press some day, 12 to 20 T.
My new garage shop side is 20' wide by 27' deep (inside). 1' wider and 5' longer than my current garage which I find is about the smallest I consider adequate. I can currently open all the doors on a car and still work my way around the car. Im assuming the new shop will be enough considering Im adding a 4 post hoist to the equation. This garage is mostly for a guy who does a lot of maintenance & small jobs and the occasional big job plus a considerable amount of detailing. Overall construction cost is a factor, I would like to keep the demo & contractor cost to under $100g.

This pic is here for a chuckle. I will demo this and most likely build on the same spot. Transformer is right beside it reducing power connection costs. Actual measurement is 32x32, 2 bays with an office. It was built many many years ago and was the shop up to the 80s for the family business doing power line work. They repaired all kinds of equipment including Nodwells (monstrous tracked all terrain equipment) out of this shop. Now they have a manufacturing facility next door to build them. However due to the age and condition it wont do! The pad has cracked so bad its separating like tectonic plates. The wall on the left side is kicked out, the roof timber and strapping is so dry that keeping tin on the roof requires regular maintenance. Plus its not designed to accept a lift, let alone my 1/2 ton chain hoist. I wish it was a viable skeleton, especially if it had an upper apartment or something I could convert to a games room (pool table, foose, big screen etc)

 

[Handy Andy]

If you demo, then the sky's the limit - at least you could go as high at 18' for the ceiling in your garage or does local regs keep you limited in height?

Reason for that is the type of hoist you're going to use will limit the type of vehicle you can play with on it.

I currently have seen several redo garages from pre-covid era that their owners had to get redone so the bay floor is flat and the roof gives the hoist reach and clearance for many types of vehicles including those high-profile SUV and PU's that some have moved their stuff into.

Their original garages only had lifts that worked 8' range - the newer ones work 14' - 16' and have 22' to 24' height flat roof.

There are also the recessed floor approaches if height you can build to, is limited...ingress and egress aside...the nice approach of that is the drive into and work under without requiring a lift. But stalls like that need a floor lift that balances if the loading (like a tire change) needs to bear weight of the vehicle.

But the main issue I see is; the "Walls" you have versus the garages I see and deliver work to, those currently that use an open floor plan and are not worried so much about coverage between the stalls, for the open space allows the workers better access and free-vision and movement throughout the shops interior lets the bay of one work freely while the other bay then lifts up the vehicle for the other bay to continue to wash or both bays up wash out the floor.

When you have walls between the bays, the junk piles from the tools, rollerbox and trays they use - they will quickly get filled up leaving the once 16' to 20' wide stall now barely fits a 6' wide Fiesta. I know, I've had to deliver parts in shops where the door and the vehicle and the front hood bench are the only spaces to leave the parts they requested.

In the states - at least around here - you have to have a grey wastewater containment, so you don't get any wells contaminated. You can't prevent the past - but moving forward the locals might fight you on even the tiniest of aspects because of what they had lived with next door until they moved out and got their own place for more of a substantiated build with the right design and approach, so the neighbors are happier. (Locals around here are an interesting lot...)

Because of current trends are going towards "greener" the local garages here have been under done in many ways because the new administration's desire to clean up their portion of the planet - the new regulations have put many shops under notice to clean up their act and due to the increased costs of doing business - many simply folded up and left.

 

[scotman]

I like the idea of the hoist. But the four post type is huge. You can still lift the Mazda up and park something underneath with a two post asymmetric lift. I’ve been doing it for years.
Are you going to pitch the floor in the wash bay towards a floor drain?

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

I have to keep the build to a semi- reasonable cost limit. High steel buildings with flat roof are not in the writing. My 'minimum' height above the hoist is 12'...the height of a sedan at full lift with 12" to spare. However the lift goes to 5'8" pass under, and an easy 6' plus under a vehicle...enough for a guy like me who is vertically challenged.
I will have 9' in front of the hoist for a bench and work area, plus 5' on each side for cabinets/bench movement. Once I get the project fully costed, If I were to add anything it will be to increase the width of the work bay by 3-5'.
I need to keep the airspace to a minimum as more volume means more heating...A cost I am trying to reduce as I will be using solar water collectors to maintain above freezing temps in a frigid landscape. I also need to split the garage as I will be heating only the shop side to just above freezing 24/7, augmenting the heating with a secondary source when I am working in the shop (evenings & weekends).
The wash bay will need to remain closer to outdoor temps in winter. An all season car will be parking in there, and adding heated garages to salty roads leads to rotten cars in short order. I will have a heater unit in there for when I need to wash up a car as required.
Ive chosen a 4 post for the ability to use it as a parking hoist as well as a lift for auto work. I will be doing some detail work and that cant be done easily using a 2 post. I also like the ability to work on a car sitting on its wheels with suspension compressed at road height. Plus, I could never get a good night sleep knowing a car is in the air on a 2 post. I will be opting for a sliding trolley jack to facilitate tire off work and the runways provide a nice place to set tools and parts down when working in wheel ends.
I will for sure be building the wash bay properly. I would prefer a drain trough, however a single pit box sand trap is more frugal and still serves well...you just squeegee diligently. Living in the country means heading into town to wash at the coin-op leaves you with a dirty car with frozen windows/locks/wiper when you get home...so Im bringing the coin-op to me, haha.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

The site where the garage is to be built is in a long valley, with heavy clay and silt. A shallow creek passes through the valley flowing all year. The property is not on a flood plane, but due to the lay of the land, surface drainage can be a challenge in some locations.
Like most garage builds I plan for a slab on grade. Some additional ground work will be needed as the site is prone to frost heave and high ground water levels. I plan to dig a surface well to control ground water level & provide water to the structure for washing cars.
During the coldest months Jan & Feb, the average low is -4F/-20C. Every year we will get nights beyond -22F/-30C...She cold! I am wanting to keep the garage above freezing so I dont have to unload all my unfreezables every winter. Using forced air and common energies quickly becomes expensive when trying to maintain temperatures inside the structure. In floor heating has been a favorite idea of mine and using the concrete pad as a huge heat battery has advantages. Originally I was considering hydronic with a domestic household water heater. However NG is not available here, LPG and Electric are too costly.
I have been researching solar PV, water and air setups. I think a solar water collector system could be the easiest and most efficient system to DIY.
I will lay pex in a super insulated pad and pump water using evacuated solar water collectors (about $1000 each). The circulation pump will be solar powered so the pump will flow well during high solar gain times and not during low solar times. I will only be heating 540 sq ft of the 932 sq ft garage (the shop side) and can accomplish this with about 2 panels. Add another panel and I potentially could maintain about 10 deg above freezing.
Due to the latitude I am located, I will need to set up the panels at about 60 deg. I can locate them on the south facing wall of the garage, during the summer months I will fold them flat against the garage wall and cover them with panels to cut off heat production.
To heat the garage while I am working I will connect to standard grid and use forced air electric or radiant, hence the 3rd panel to maintain 10 deg.
Due to the colder arctic masses we regularly have rolling though like a trucker convoy, in the winter we actually get some serious advantageous days for solar collection, the colder it gets, the sunnier it is. Hence the evacuated tube collectors (most efficient at deep temps). I hope to be able to collect enough energy to store in the slab and essentially just want to keep the temps above freezing to protect items that cant handle it.
Mild areas that have many overcast days wont be able to take advantage this system, however I get the least percentage of sun in Nov/Dec at 21%, but Jan/Feb get 38% daily average, when temps are lowest. A glycol/water mixture will be flowing though the system, safety from freezing...just in case.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

I will be needing some storage solutions while I build the garage. I am planning on leaving the car at its current location as long as possible even though we are moving into the new location in March. Demolition of the old garage at the new location will begin shortly (Demo permit still required).
Once I have to be out of my current garage for good, I plan to store the car in a Car Capsule inside a large equipment tarp shelter currently used to park the JCB backhoe. As a longer term solution I will personally build a 17x9.5 shed to park the car in until the new garage is completed. Once the car is in the new garage, the shed will become a nice wood shop/storage with a 8' roll up door

.

Couple promo vids of the product Im looking at...

--I still think Id have a bowling ball dent or 250lb ass print on the car, LMAO.

Anyone have experience with an inflatable car storage unit? Indoor or outdoor use?

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Just a small update. My house sold, new owners take possession easter. I am moving this weekend to the farm and will be busy getting settled for about the next month. Then I hope to get this rolling!

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Things are starting to roll. Locates are being done within the next week or 10 days. Electrician is coming to disconnect the old garage from hydro service. Friend doing the demo/haul away coming by to survey and make sure all is ready. Hope to start demo the week of June 1st.​

Its been crazy wet this spring and I was worried it would be a really late start, but thigs seem to by drying up finally.​

​

Heading out Saturday to pickup another toy/project...​

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Funny twist. My wife's cousin is doing the engineering and plans for the new garage. He mentioned if I take pictures of the old building condition (cracked floor, leaking roof, kicked out south wall) I can say Im removing the building for safety purposes and dont require a demo permit

.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Here is my new project, something from a simpler time. It will have utilitarian use, I have always wanted an MF135.

Converted to alternator with proper kit so tach works, rebuilt steering box and hydraulic pump, new front tires, rad, carb. Everything works as it should. Turn key, pull choke rod for 1/2 a second and it fires up from cold...priceless!! In the end it needs some dents dollied out, some paint and a new seat!
Seller had about 50 tractors on site, and can find you anything. 2 Fordsons and an 8N, 2 MF135s, Olivers, Zetors and a butt load of David Browns.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Well, things havent progressed like I had planned. Locates was a fiasco, they lost my request twice.
Power has been disconnected, garage emptied...$75 of shit to the dump, still working on scrap metal but I estimate $350 in the end. Roof sheeting was all aluminum!
Waiting for demo crew to come. Only 1 day worth of work, but the longer they take, the more corrugated steel I take off for scrap. I wanted the old building down before the end of June, but these things happen.

Garage plans have been drafted, awaiting final verification by my wifes engineer cousin. Then we go over mods and changes. Due to the increase in costs I have decided to build a single bay garage 20 wide by 28 deep. In the future (3-5 years) I will build an addition second bay as a dedicated wash bay. If I were to build the full 2 bays, I would need to heat the whole pad, or do 2 separate concrete pours as I only want to pex the workshop side. I will however excavate and fill based on the full build.
I forwarded the hoist info for design purposes.
Atlas Garage Pro 8000 EXT four post lift
Looking at using the Amvic Ampex or like system for under pad insulation. It replaces the rigid foam and the need for 6mil poly plus provides easy attachment for the pex without mesh and stapes.

Amvic Ampex system
I also found a simple sand trap drain for the bay as it will have to perform workbay and washbay duties for a while.

Vodaland 12x12 catch basin
I was also looking to have the structure built to support a trolley beam chain hoist in conjunction with the 4 post hoist, but I have decided to forgo having the engineer work it in to the drafted plans and I will build a seperate system with the help of my engineer after the outer structure is completed (ie: no nazi at the permit office will need to know anything about it, simplifying build permit process)

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Finally...She gone! I got a call last night and 20 min later a LinkBelt was sitting in my driveway.
The operator was going to start demolition and excavation in the morning. I recognized the operator, turns out he is a retired home builder who ran a successful contracting business with an excellent reputation, now he just plays with the big equipment part time for fun. He was very proficient, taking only 6 hours to dig a 20' deep hole, demo the garage & pad and excavating to native soil!

Now the engineer will be out in the next couple days to survey and finalize. From there fill will be brought in and construction can begin. Im going to call the operator's son as he now runs the contracting business and see if he can pick it up from here. The guy who owns the excavator dosent do builds and was contacted strictly to demo. Finally starting to feel good about this, its been a difficult road getting momentum up to now.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

We are nearing the end of August. Im getting a bit panicked about the lack of production here.
I have the completed stamped drawings, "Commitment Certificate" (city culpability crap) and started the permit process. Still need to get Public Health to sign off on the build because we are on well/septic. The bright sparks down town have streamlined the permit process with an glitchy online app which I tried at home. When you go down in person they hand you a tablet and you use the same glitchy app...so much fail. Ive been very nice to the city official and he has been very helpful. Even he isnt impressed that Ive uploaded the drawings, got conformation of upload then they dont appear. It did it right infront of him, lol. Went home and uploaded them from my laptop. Third time is a charm I guess.
Also still waiting on the quote from my builder. Said he would be out to go over the quote this week but havent heard anything. Seems to be the new climate for getting stuff done now, A friend waited 6 months for tile in his house...all the stuff was there in his garage. Im having trouble with the new business style, I flat out tell people when the timeline is fluid. I guess the Speed6 could complain...it has a trunk full of parts and no install date.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Spent a lot of time waiting for the permit to go through the various levels, but finally procured a building permit from the city. However not without a $1100 bill. Not a bad price for a permit considering what you would pay in some major cities. Things can now start happening.
Managed to have a good chat with the builder when he came for a site visit. We went over a few preliminary things. Now I have to forward the first deposit installment and he can begin with ordering the trusses and get base aggregates trucked in.
The baffled floor drain I had originally forwarded to my engineer to incorporate into the floor is on back order till at least the end of October. My builder suggested I go with a precast external sand/oil separator, they are about $700. Will need to research further but would only require a simple floor drain as the separator would be mounted outside.
The pad and structure should only take about 3 week to erect from when shovels hit the ground...fingers crossed, winter is around the corner!!

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Met up with the builder and dropped off the deposit for the 1st stage, the base and pad work. The trusses are on order, scheduled delivery for Oct 22. So the builder has 3 more days at the current job he is working on, then he will prep to start mine next week. So Stoked, I cant wait to see it come together.
Hopefully I can get a lot of good pictures posted of the process.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

After a long waiting period, I can say that there is finally progress on the footprint that is my new garage. A couple days ago the builder dropped off a backhoe and some supplies (forms, rebar etc). After the great summer weather, fall has proven to be beyond wet.

My builder was delayed in finishing some previous jobs, but has assured me I am the only project on his roster now. Today the geo-cloth was laid and the various aggregates were spread and compacted. Six truck loads in all because I am laying gravel for the shop and later addition.

Near the end of the day they wrapped up because the rain wouldnt stop...Damn rain! I guess on the bright side the cars are getting washed.

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

The pace is picking up. Today the large aggregate was packed, and the base was laid, shaped and tamped. The builder and I went over some of the next details such as where I was putting the power panel and how I want the conduit laid. Also added is a conduit for water service from a well or rainwater collection. I assembled information for the hoist so he had copies of the concrete and foundation requirements from the hoist manufacturer and the layout measurements for where I want the additional pad thickness for the posts.

Tomorrow will be laying hard insulation panels and setting up the forms. He wants to pour concrete this week, but I feel thats a lofty call between the weather and the potential of setbacks I have persevered through with this project. But hey, if it can be done I will be very pleased.
ToDo from here...Make some calls to investigate an oil/water separator option for the drain lines, my last attempt netted no callback from the first company I contacted. I have to pickup electrical conduit. 2" should be good for 100A/240V panel. I need less than 30' and a smooth 90*. Also I need to contact the guy who is going to epoxy the floor and find out what type of finish on the concrete would be easiest. Get a good night sleep, I been sick like dog for a week now!
This is where it ended today...

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Among the rain drops the work proceeds. Poly and foam panels being laid. Lots of insulation for this pad.
Space was created for the sand trap drain. Im no licensed plumber, but the drain basin requires a special connector to hook up to 3" PVC. I can't for the life of me find on the website anything stating one needs it for install. But apparently its required. Originally it cost me $5 to ship the basin regular freight, but today its costing me $25 to courier the damn $6 adapter so we can have it now

Forms are up and the rest of the insulation is laid, also the Amvic panels for the pex in the center of the garage have been fitted (no pic). Now its just the final details, install the conduits, cutout for the garage door etc.


Little bit of a mishap today. Its important to keep an eagle eye on things. I happen to notice the pads for the hoist looked centered in the shop. I had passed a drawing along to the engineer and the builder showing I wanted the hoist 65" inside the bay door. With the hoist centered, I would have 3' from the hoist posts to the front wall workbench...no bueno. I specified the measurements so I could have 5'. A world of difference. A simple fix now, but once the concrete pour, I would have to live with it.

 

[Handy Andy]

Woof, glad you caught it - many shops have "additions" due to such things...

 

[SyntheticAtmosphere]

Ive had enough setbacks with this, Im just glad I was watching because its easier to rectify now.