MOT help plz

[Myfirstfiestamk6]

Hi everyone, before I took my fiesta in for its MOT I had adjusted the handbrake to be maxxed out at 3 clicks, the next day I took it for MOT and it failed on handbrake efficiency, so my first instinct was to pull the hand brake and count how many clicks there were, and there were 7 clicks when I got the car back!

Did the people in the MOT garage adjust my brakes from 3 clicks to 7 clicks so that they could charge me to fix it?????
Or does it loosen itself up during the MOT?
I made sure I tightened the handbrake to 3 clicks before the start of the mot.

Eagerly awaiting your reply,
Thanks everyone

 

[LionsTooth]

My first thought is when you adjusted it, did you aggressively use the handle a bunch of times to take up any slack and then check it again, drive it and use the brakes, and then check it again? I have never done the process on my car, but it's a cable and cables need fiddling to get them correct. Did the garage change your clicks? Possible, but is that the thing they would do? Wouldn't they pick something they can make some real money on if they were going to be assholes? My 2 cents worth.

 

[Myfirstfiestamk6]

Hi there, I checked it like 6-10times after adjustment,

Also I had lightly driven the car for about 5-10mins before adjusting,

This is the second car he failed me on handbrake efficiency, the first one was last week in which when I got the car back it was loose same like 7 clicks so I adjusted that to 3 now as well but since I was taking this car in for mot I made sure to tighten it before the MOT test..that's why I am having a suspicion that they are intentionally loosening the adjustment nut??

He also failed me for excessive oil leak from engine this time around, so when I got to his garage I asked him how bad the engine was leaking he said to me that it's leaking all over his floor so I asked if I could see where the oil was on the floor in his garage so he showed me like a few drops of oil that was on his garage floor, nowhere else was any oil, he had my car waiting parked outside of garage over a huge water puddle which made me think that it was a huge oil puddle when I arrived he said it was leaking all over his garage but there was none when he showed me a few drops on the floor, this car never leaked any oil before.....I ended up arguing with him and accusing his mechanics of deliberately causing an oil leak on purpose so that they may be able to carry out repairs sooooooo........ Not going back there again lol.
But if I can confirm that my handbrake shouldn't change from 3clicks to 7 just from an mot inspection then I'll be 100 percent sure that these guys are deliberately causing issues so that they get easy jobs in? Lol
Thanks for your speedy reply

 

[LionsTooth]

Hi there, I checked it like 6-10times after adjustment,

Also I had lightly driven the car for about 5-10mins before adjusting,

This is the second car he failed me on handbrake efficiency, the first one was last week in which when I got the car back it was loose same like 7 clicks so I adjusted that to 3 now as well but since I was taking this car in for mot I made sure to tighten it before the MOT test..that's why I am having a suspicion that they are intentionally loosening the adjustment nut??

He also failed me for excessive oil leak from engine this time around, so when I got to his garage I asked him how bad the engine was leaking he said to me that it's leaking all over his floor so I asked if I could see where the oil was on the floor in his garage so he showed me like a few drops of oil that was on his garage floor, nowhere else was any oil, he had my car waiting parked outside of garage over a huge water puddle which made me think that it was a huge oil puddle when I arrived he said it was leaking all over his garage but there was none when he showed me a few drops on the floor, this car never leaked any oil before.....I ended up arguing with him and accusing his mechanics of deliberately causing an oil leak on purpose so that they may be able to carry out repairs sooooooo........ Not going back there again lol.
But if I can confirm that my handbrake shouldn't change from 3clicks to 7 just from an mot inspection then I'll be 100 percent sure that these guys are deliberately causing issues so that they get easy jobs in? Lol
Thanks for your speedy reply

There's a reason there are click stops...so it won't lose its adjustment. So if you are sure it was properly adjusted, then I trust that. Sounds like they dicked with it.

 

[Handy Andy]

This is something you don't normally hear about.

We usually have the opposite - the handbrake is too tight in some cases - causing drive away concerns of sticking brakes because of the internal adjusters are tensioned too much and therefore can "tighten" the brake to shoe clearance too tightly causing sticky brakes. The shoes won't release well enough until the drum is forced to turn - then one shoe "pops" and since both sides are pressed to the drum - one side releases enough of the pressure to equalize the shoes back to retract.

You realize too, the rear brake adjusters require a reverse - apply brake - release - again reverse - apply brake release approach to make the adjusters work in a fashion that allow the lever - the one that is a long-threaded bolt - to turn and adjust the shoes to fit the diameter of the drum and the shoes will naturally fit a fit to become equal to both inside the drum - there is a lever that "Rocks" the rod to make the threaded portion turn until the shoes can't "rock" the lever to make the shoes retract on their springs - this aspect is where the "sticky brakes" come into play and cause the start - to - drive - away stalling problems most blame hill-assist on - when it's really an aspect issue of the shoes to drum distance.

​

The 3-clicks then pressure - they seem to have a different approach to this - for in our area - three clicks can put your car in a world of hurt if its struck - the shoes won't move. Now if you're setting up the 3 clicks and it's stationary, remember the amount of force on level ground is different than on an incline - which may be while that measurement is different per your point of view - they may have a test for the amount of force the tires apply thru your handbrake to stop a MOVING vehicle. So, to you it may be 3 clicks and were not moving - but if you're moving and you need to use the handbrake, 3 clicks may not be enough - you may need to lift the handle even harder to obtain the force to stop the car on a PAIR (rear drum - Handbrake does not use Front) of Drum brakes - that may be their test.

Reflecting on this, to me this goes back to tighten the handbrake to get past the safety check - then turn it back out when they are done - the brakes dragging while having to do this kind of test is Short lived, else you'd have no brakes left.

I know why you set it up for 3-clicks and your holding, but to them is a different ballgame. I have lived with sticking brakes and if you drive a manual - you're stalling because of that drag in clearance - so releasing the cable with more slack gets past specific problems but the MOT is looking for Handbrake efficiency.

One big problem is the "pivot" used to apply the lever principle - the pivot "throw" or length of turn in rotation - is not long enough, on top of the lever handle is too short to be able to apply that needed force to get the vehicle to stop in a reasonable distance for the number of clicks they demand it be.

 

[Handy Andy]

Another way to check your Handbrake, and make sure it is tight enough is;

Park the car, in an open parking lot area so you are allowed some room to move your car...
Pull the Handbrake lever your "3 clicks" or whatever you use to set it thru tension on your hand from it.
Start the car,
Keeping the Handbrake on - can you move the car? No? Good then it means the "BRAKE" system is looking at your Handbrake (Emergency) Brake and keeping the transmission from getting damaged by dragging brakes - ok, that part of a "test" passes.

• IF it moves, then apply more clicks - how many more? You might want to have the transmission system checked to make sure the release solenoids are working right and correctly - you should NOT move -
  • the BRAKE light is telling the PCM/TCM not to move the car...
  • but release the brake and reapply the handbrake - attempt to - for 3 clicks does the car come to a stop? It should - the transmission would see "BRAKE" light on the dash and cut out that transmission so no damage there. Again, that test would pass.

In the above test, you're verifying the BRAKE and PCM are talking to each other - BRAKE overrides any PCM control - or should - to keep the car from rolling after or from being stopped - unless you're in control and want the vehicle to move.

Another one though - is dealing with CENTERING of your brake shoes to drum clearance...

The Handbrake uses a lever on one shoe - to lift/pivot the shoe towards the drum- making contact - the rebound effect then goes thru that adjuster screw / bolt into the other shoe - forcing it to move towards the drum - both should meet the drum about the same time - the first shoe (rear one usually) contacts but then transfers force to the bolt thru to the other shoe and make it pivot to the drum.

• The Handbrake manual system needs to have that adjuster bolt set to a proper length so the energy from your hand braking - is being transferred to both shoes equally enough - but that bolt also is there to help with wear, as the shoes wear - get thinner, the distance to the drum is greater, requires more distance to move to apply to stop - so the adjuster bolt does this thru a rocking action, that turns that bolt to EXTEND itself a little or retract - until it reaches a serrated notch which then stops the retraction - instead it helps "center" your shoes to the drum so they are spaced evenly - every time you apply brakes Hand or Power from your Brake Pedal.
• This process repeats every time you apply your brakes - for the lifetime of the vehicle. OR at least it should - until they wear out.

If you're ok with this so far, there is one other aspect that you need to consider when it comes to knowing if you have enough clicks or not...

The Rear Brake Wheel Cylinder, the one that is bolted to the plate - when you apply your brakes; fluid flows into that cylinder, and pries apart the shoes from it's own piston pushing the shoe to the drum - forcing shoe to drum pressure to stop your car.

When the Wheel cylinder is applied, BOTH shoes move immediately. Part #'s 7 and 8

The Handbrake moves one shoe to move another thru a bolt (your adjuster) - if they are NOT CENTERED - then it would take more clicks to "center" the shoes to the drum so BOTH shoes can stop the car. You only engage one, that shoe will wear unevenly compared to the other. The shoe connected to the Handbrake wears thinner, and if you don't have the adjuster bolt set correctly - one shoe, the handbrake one, will make braking uneven and the Wheel cylinder to Handbrake aspect (your CENTERING of Shoe to Drum for both sides) is different because one shoe is thinner than the other.

To fix that - it's pretty simple - park your car, leave the engine running - press your foot on the brake pedal firmly - then set your handbrake - but keep pulling the handbrake a little harder than usual - to "tension" it - force the shoe to the drum and see if the other shoe will follow and apply itself to the other side of the drum - the handbrake - if the shoes are slightly off center, that handbrake will click up more to take up the tension as the adjuster bolt then helps to "center" the shoes.

Why this happens? As brakes age, their ability to seat against the plate and also stay put on the plate - requires the adjuster, retraction springs and the pressure points the brakes shoes rest on - ALL need some form of lubrication to provide for this centering movement. IF not checked or examined - your fail an MOT test because the shoes are not keeping in-line and centered - so the Handbrake test fails.