2015 Fiesta SE will not shift out of Park and also receive message that Hill Assist Not Available.

[TC10284]

Hi all.
Last week, when I started up my 2015 Fiesta, I got a message about Hill Assist Not Available, and I tried to shift out of Park to Drive and it took a few seconds before it would finally shift to Drive.

This week, it's a little cooler here, and similar situation, except it would never unlock the shifter and I couldn't get it out of Park at all. I'd bet that if I tried it later today, it would work.

Any idea what could be causing this?

 

[LionsTooth]

It sounds odd, but the first thing I would check is your battery. These cars are sensitive to low voltage/amps. It seems to cause all kinds of funky errors and behavior.

 

[Handy Andy]

As per @LionsTooth - better check the battery, its cables - might need to also check your cars serpentine belt and your alternator.

You may be able to start the car, but the low voltage sag after that starter pulled all the power out of the battery, that alternator is supposed to offset that loss and bring the voltage to power the Transmissions solenoids to shift it - amongst other things - puts the power back into the system.

Things?

• - like PCM and ABS
  • - which ABS system controls that Hill Assist function
  • so it too, needs power from the Electrical to also work
• Battery - check it,
  • if it can't hold a charge very well or long, it will drag down the charging system and make your car act sluggish from the loss of voltages to power the subsystems - a weak battery will also damage these systems to a poiint of being very expensive and costly as you wait or put off the effort to fix it.

The transmission not shifting out of park?

• That's the job of the TCM
  • it needs power from the battery (Electrical) to move the solenoids - it may explain the messages you're getting.

So check and clean up the battery - clean up connections that you can get access to that have wires bolt to your car, those ground points - as you can - your car will thank you.

If you have a lot of miles on it - over 50K - this is a necessity to have done as part of being a maintainer - you own a 2015 Fiesta - time to do a little maintenance.

 

[scotman]

Amen! People have to understand that the Fiesta, like all modern cars, is an electrically controlled machine. It’s an internal combustion engine. But, the vehicle features, controls and most functions are strictly electronic and electrical. Those systems and components must be treated and serviced as the electrical components that they are. This means that owners will have to get comfortable with the idea of doing some maintenance work that includes an understanding of basic electrical theory. Just because a given feature or function is not working doesn’t mean that it is broken or fried.
Owners of modern Fiesta need to embrace the voltmeter and continuity tester. Electricity is not magical.

 

[TC10284]

As per @LionsTooth - better check the battery, its cables - might need to also check your cars serpentine belt and your alternator.

You may be able to start the car, but the low voltage sag after that starter pulled all the power out of the battery, that alternator is supposed to offset that loss and bring the voltage to power the Transmissions solenoids to shift it - amongst other things - puts the power back into the system.

Things?

• - like PCM and ABS
  • - which ABS system controls that Hill Assist function
  • so it too, needs power from the Electrical to also work
• Battery - check it,
  • if it can't hold a charge very well or long, it will drag down the charging system and make your car act sluggish from the loss of voltages to power the subsystems - a weak battery will also damage these systems to a poiint of being very expensive and costly as you wait or put off the effort to fix it.

The transmission not shifting out of park?

• That's the job of the TCM
  • it needs power from the battery (Electrical) to move the solenoids - it may explain the messages you're getting.

So check and clean up the battery - clean up connections that you can get access to that have wires bolt to your car, those ground points - as you can - your car will thank you.

If you have a lot of miles on it - over 50K - this is a necessity to have done as part of being a maintainer - you own a 2015 Fiesta - time to do a little maintenance.

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions here. The battery should be relatively new - like 2021 I think. I'll double check. There have been a couple times where I haven't driven it in over a week and I could tell the battery was weak when I started it up. And a time or two when I didn't drive it for over a couple weeks and the battery was too weak to start. I keep a small solar maintainer on it now and that helps. Now, it gets driven about two hours or more every week.

I will connect an alternator/battery load tester to the battery and check it. I do know there is no corrosion on the battery wires or terminals as I look at that regularly when connecting the solar maintainer.

I can say that when I came home to it that afternoon, as I predicted, it started up and shifted just fine. No Hill Assist Warning either.

Also, I could reproduce the issue and I did not hear the actuator or solenoid under the shifter cover release every time I pressed the brake pedal. Sometimes it would, sometimes not. So that makes me wonder if it's it's a button not releasing when I press the brake pedal, or if it's the actuator on the shifter itself.

 

[TC10284]

Amen! People have to understand that the Fiesta, like all modern cars, is an electrically controlled machine. It’s an internal combustion engine. But, the vehicle features, controls and most functions are strictly electronic and electrical. Those systems and components must be treated and serviced as the electrical components that they are. This means that owners will have to get comfortable with the idea of doing some maintenance work that includes an understanding of basic electrical theory. Just because a given feature or function is not working doesn’t mean that it is broken or fried.
Owners of modern Fiesta need to embrace the voltmeter and continuity tester. Electricity is not magical.

Trying not to take any offense here, as I get how you feel. It's similar in my world of being an IT Manager.

I love working with electronics and sometimes want to change careers to Electrical Engineering after schooling. I'm no expert on electronics, but I use a VOM regularly to test voltage, resistance, continuity, etc. I play with small solar panels, batteries and battery maintainers, temp sensors, etc on the regular. Can solder wires and some PCBs, etc. I work on and fix up my 40+ small engine garden tractors and I do my best to maintain my other vehicles. 66 F100, 89 F150, 89 Mustang LX, 92 Mustang GT, 93 Mustang GT, 93 Mustang LX, 98 Ranger, '01 Mustang, '13 Escape, '15 Fiesta, and my wife's '18 Focus. I've replaced belts, spark plugs/wires, batteries, alternators, PCM, fluids, changed oil/filters, replaced various parts, and so on.
It's all a great side hobby to get me out from in front of a computer...

I don't claim to be anything close to an auto-mechanic, an electrical engineer, or even an expert in IT (and that's my career).

I just do the best I can on my own to keep the costs down and be able/learn to do things myself. If I feel like I am in over my head, I research, post questions, and then if I still feel like I can't, I take it to a "professional" and pay them.

I posted a general question initially because I didn't want to sound like a "know it all" or anything like that.

And no, I'm not trying to sound snarky here either...

 

[scotman]

That’s okay. No problem from me.
But, that switch to release the shift interlock mechanism is an electrical switch.
I try to reply to questions in the broadest, least technical language. Accurate replies are complicated by not being given a good explanation of the situation or circumstances or even the miles or recent repair history. So, the best we can do is make an effort for an educated guess of the possible solution.

 

[TC10284]

That’s okay. No problem from me.
But, that switch to release the shift interlock mechanism is an electrical switch.
I try to reply to questions in the broadest, least technical language. Accurate replies are complicated by not being given a good explanation of the situation or circumstances or even the miles or recent repair history. So, the best we can do is make an effort for an educated guess of the possible solution.

I will double check the mileage for you too. I am pretty sure it is around 137k for mileage.

 

[scotman]

137,000. do you live in a region where you have snow and ice?
Okay, I see you are in NC. Maybe just some salt air if you are near the coast.

 

[TC10284]

As per @LionsTooth - better check the battery, its cables - might need to also check your cars serpentine belt and your alternator.

You may be able to start the car, but the low voltage sag after that starter pulled all the power out of the battery, that alternator is supposed to offset that loss and bring the voltage to power the Transmissions solenoids to shift it - amongst other things - puts the power back into the system.

Things?

• - like PCM and ABS
  • - which ABS system controls that Hill Assist function
  • so it too, needs power from the Electrical to also work
• Battery - check it,
  • if it can't hold a charge very well or long, it will drag down the charging system and make your car act sluggish from the loss of voltages to power the subsystems - a weak battery will also damage these systems to a poiint of being very expensive and costly as you wait or put off the effort to fix it.

The transmission not shifting out of park?

• That's the job of the TCM
  • it needs power from the battery (Electrical) to move the solenoids - it may explain the messages you're getting.

So check and clean up the battery - clean up connections that you can get access to that have wires bolt to your car, those ground points - as you can - your car will thank you.

If you have a lot of miles on it - over 50K - this is a necessity to have done as part of being a maintainer - you own a 2015 Fiesta - time to do a little maintenance.

On to something I think. Checked voltage this morning with load tester. Showed a little over 11v after it sat for almost two weeks since I didn't drive it last week due to the shifter issue.
Battery is either weak or something is draining it. I'm leaning toward something leeching the battery. Alternator test appeared to be OK from what I can see. May have to hook up VOM and pull fuses to see what could be leeching, if so. If I have a spare battery that works OK (I have spare car batteries from working with solar stuff), I may try swapping one and see if something for sure is leeching power.

131k mileage. No, they put salt brine on the roads here a few times per year for where I live, thankfully. Triad area of NC.
And not that it's related, but I had the timing belt and camshaft gear replaced in late 2021 also, due to the common issue of the spotweld breaking allowing the guide to break off and belt to walk the gear. That was done professionally.

Did NOT have issues shifting out of park or Hill Assist warning this morning.
Drove to work ~45min. Will check voltage of battery right after I get home this afternoon.

Video/pics. The battery is 5/21 or 9/21. Definitely 2021. The pic I took was supposed to show the sticker but I messed up.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/82Ge8vFpDgrqcE629

 

[TC10284]

Got home earlier. Tested battery voltage as soon as I got home. It was at 12.2v after about an hour of driving.
Load testing appeared to be OK. I went ahead and swapped with a battery I had on standby from 2022 that fit perfectly and was showing 12.5v. We'll see if this one gets drained.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CYwG1TGVxgmKTtS7A

 

[Handy Andy]

Nice detective work so far.

How good are you at checking Draw current - you know, set the Ammeter in to the positive lead, in series (not parallel like across like you'd do for voltage check) when the engine is off - then let the system settle down - might need to close all the doors turn off all the interior lights so the "wake up" doesn't keep the power alive - you just want to know if you have leakage somewhere. Need a 20A meter with a means to lower the settings to make it more sensitive - once the battery has been charged, pull the cable to install the meter - AT the battery.

Once that is done - the test comes from observing

• - then pull fuses even the cables at that Buss post at the battery - watching the meter
• - only readings or numbers on the meter is a sign of a drain, so when you pull a fuse, look - check the meter
• - still there?
• - reinsert fuse go onto the next one
• - but when it goes flat or near to zero - you found the culprit feed or one of several that feed into a circuit - like SYNC, or even the Alternator.
  • This is why I mentioned the meter having adjustable reading settings to make the meter more sensitive in draw detection - so you can even further locate other feeder lines that are power parasites

The above is a type of temperature measurement of a system and stores data serially and can supply information upon request.
https://www.theengineeringprojects.com/2019/01/introduction-to-ds18b20.html
It might be bit beyond the scope of this forum, but the concepts used in this device can help explain how the DTC and CAM bus system and it's utilization of callout addressing can be used as a method to add on systems that can be called upon to augment the cars ability to use features and supplement features with enablement's that are not unlike the added features of a trim line - like S to an SES for example.

Now this may remind others of some types of other quirks the radio or Audio system in a Fiesta can exhibit.
That is why they have a watchdog function - it's function sends data, like it's ok... but if corrupted data from a subsystem is detected the uP processor just powers it down to reset a line (to all functions it can access so it sees correct data) to it, so then it can initialize and start gathering data again to stream


Alternator Rebuild Kit for Fiesta, Cmax e&c...
​

Although rare, it does occur, the alternator - having carbon brushes, slip rings and a built in set of coils, stator and rotor - it is not too uncommon for the coil winds to start building up debris and even have it's enamel dielectric begin to break down. . As you can see by the above, the main "guts" are integrated into a single unit - but that does not fix the main problem of bad coil or winds that have shorted - in those instances, you'll just have to replace the whole mess with a new one.

Motorcraft relationship cross reference.
Motorcraft® W0133-3704793-MTR​

Hope this helps!

 

[TC10284]

Nice detective work so far.

How good are you at checking Draw current - you know, set the Ammeter in to the positive lead, in series (not parallel like across like you'd do for voltage check) when the engine is off - then let the system settle down - might need to close all the doors turn off all the interior lights so the "wake up" doesn't keep the power alive - you just want to know if you have leakage somewhere. Need a 20A meter with a means to lower the settings to make it more sensitive - once the battery has been charged, pull the cable to install the meter - AT the battery.

Once that is done - the test comes from observing

• - then pull fuses even the cables at that Buss post at the battery - watching the meter
• - only readings or numbers on the meter is a sign of a drain, so when you pull a fuse, look - check the meter
• - still there?
• - reinsert fuse go onto the next one
• - but when it goes flat or near to zero - you found the culprit feed or one of several that feed into a circuit - like SYNC, or even the Alternator.
  • This is why I mentioned the meter having adjustable reading settings to make the meter more sensitive in draw detection - so you can even further locate other feeder lines that are power parasites

View attachment 7974
The above is a type of temperature measurement of a system and stores data serially and can supply information upon request.
https://www.theengineeringprojects.com/2019/01/introduction-to-ds18b20.html
It might be bit beyond the scope of this forum, but the concepts used in this device can help explain how the DTC and CAM bus system and it's utilization of callout addressing can be used as a method to add on systems that can be called upon to augment the cars ability to use features and supplement features with enablement's that are not unlike the added features of a trim line - like S to an SES for example.

Now this may remind others of some types of other quirks the radio or Audio system in a Fiesta can exhibit.
That is why they have a watchdog function - it's function sends data, like it's ok... but if corrupted data from a subsystem is detected the uP processor just powers it down to reset a line (to all functions it can access so it sees correct data) to it, so then it can initialize and start gathering data again to stream

View attachment 7975
Alternator Rebuild Kit for Fiesta, Cmax e&c...
​

Although rare, it does occur, the alternator - having carbon brushes, slip rings and a built in set of coils, stator and rotor - it is not too uncommon for the coil winds to start building up debris and even have it's enamel dielectric begin to break down. . As you can see by the above, the main "guts" are integrated into a single unit - but that does not fix the main problem of bad coil or winds that have shorted - in those instances, you'll just have to replace the whole mess with a new one.

View attachment 7976
Motorcraft relationship cross reference.
Motorcraft® W0133-3704793-MTR​

Hope this helps!

Definitely have used a VOM to check for parasitic draw before! I've done it on a 2001 Mustang and a few others. I'll try this next if I see my voltage dropping on the battery I installed this afternoon.

 

[TC10284]

Checked the replacement battery voltage in the Fiesta this morning.
Voltage dropped to 12.2v. Previously, when the battery was just sitting on my basement floor, it held at 12.5v. Something definitely pulling on it.

Does anyone know if having the hood popped (to keep the solar maintainer connected) causes any systems not to go to sleep mode? I know that the car alerts me the hood is popped if the key is on or it's running.

 

[TC10284]

Couple updates:
Over the past week or two, I have found the following:

• I don't think it's a battery issue after swapping the battery. I checked voltage last week prior to starting it up, and voltage of the battery showed 12.4v. But still got the hill assist warning and the shifter wouldn't shift out of park.
• Put some dielectric grease on the push switch that the brake pedal pushes in when not pressed thinking it may be getting stuck.
• This morning, the hill assist warning and shifter not shifting out of park issue arose again
• In EACH case, I can pump the brake pedal about three times and it will eventually unlock the shifter

I am thinking the switch/solenoid that locks the shifter under the plastic shifter cover plate may not be unlocking until I pump the brake pedal a few times. Is this possible?

 

[Handy Andy]

This may also indicate something to do with the Fluid Level the Brake Fluid is.

That will set a BRAKE and even a Symbol light on the DASH if it thinks this - so if it's not on yet, lets see if the Brake Pedal needs a little tweak.

​

Pumping the brakes - the actuator is in the center hump - and a key solenoid that runs to the TCM to power down IT'S OWN actuators is in this area too. The TCM uses the PCM and BCM (Body control module) to help control the transmissions own gearing - where to start out at, what gear it's in, how fast the wheels are tuning to help select the gear and the Brake pedal to tell the TCM not to accelerate and even offer to coast the car (or Engine Brake) to lower it's speed versus keeping the car in gear at any given speed.

So the keyword here is how much plunger action is needed?

The brake pedal assembly rests in a carriage - it holds the switches which you see - held on one flange of this assembly, the "pedals" that affect it - are on the Brake Pedal itself.

So if the FLANGE the switches are resting on, is not set right - those plungers may be set out TOO FAR and the system can't acknowledge the Brake Pedal position is correct. (It can't determine if the Pedal is; in, out, or somewhere in between)

So if the Brake lights are off, when the Brake Pedal is at rest - the plungers may need some simple alignment or may be going bad or adjust the Flange so the paddles meet and press in the plungers for those switches to tell the SYSTEM where the Brake Pedal is, then the TCM actuator that lets the thing get out of Park can work and you can put the car in gear and go.

 

[TC10284]

Interesting...And great info.

I put dielectric grease on the white plunger. I don't recall seeing the paddles or the other sensor/plunger, but I will check again and adjust paddles if necessary.