2013 Ford Fiesta electrical problems - car dead

[Alex]

Hey Everybody,

Our 2013 Fiesta is suddenly dead without warning. We have accumulated electrical problems as time goes by, currently at 120k miles. Battery is GOOD (voltmeter shows >12.6v). When trying to start it makes a lot of strange noises from under the hood. I can't tell yet if its the starter or something else. Lots of clicking and pops and mechanical noises, but not always the same. Sometimes nothing happens at all. Sometimes it makes the welcome chime sounds and interior electrical works. Sometimes it does nothing at all.

Persistent problems over prior months:
* Loud pop sound on radio (very loud and scary) -> Then radio dies and screen is nonfunctional until the car is turned off and re-started. This happens probably 8/10 times the car is driven, usually happens within 10 minutes of driving, but is random.
* Sometimes the screen says the door is open, and no matter how many times we open and close the door, it still says open. Turning the car off and back on usually fixes the problem.
* Fan switch only works in positions 3 & 4 (nonfunctional on low settings 1 & 2)
* A/C works on and off (unrelated?). Stops completely on the highway. Works best when coasting. Sometimes works at a stop, sometimes not.

In 2020 we had the TCM replaced under warranty.
In 2021 we had the fuse box sealed as part of a recall.

Fuses look okay at a cursory glance. No obvious corrosion or mess in the box.

I am thinking it must be a short or ground problem? Or a resistor or another chip has gone bad?

EDIT: Forgot to mention I put in a scan tool and there are NO CODES


Thanks for your insight and wisdom,
Alex

 

[scotman]

I would have an auto parts store load test the battery. The loaded condition could be a different story.
The first two places to closely inspect are under the drivers seat. You need a torx T50 bit on a 3/8 ratchet and some pre soaking with penetrating oil. You can lift up the carpeting, don't have to remove it, but another pair of hands would help. The two grounds that i am pointing to are behind the battery. Then be prepared with a fine wire brush to clean the mating surfaces after carefully removing the 8m ground bolts clean each one and reattach them. Be sure to also brush the threads of those bolts.
After cleaning and tightening them, coat those grounds with petroleum jelly. Bolt the seat down and see what effect all that effort has.
The good news is that this is not expensive to do. Just time consuming.

 

[Alex]

I would have an auto parts store load test the battery. The loaded condition could be a different story.
The first two places to closely inspect are under the drivers seat. You need a torx T50 bit on a 3/8 ratchet and some pre soaking with penetrating oil. You can lift up the carpeting, don't have to remove it, but another pair of hands would help. The two grounds that i am pointing to are behind the battery. Then be prepared with a fine wire brush to clean the mating surfaces after carefully removing the 8m ground bolts clean each one and reattach them. Be sure to also brush the threads of those bolts.
After cleaning and tightening them, coat those grounds with petroleum jelly. Bolt the seat down and see what effect all that effort has.
The good news is that this is not expensive to do. Just time consuming.

Ok, wow, thank you so much for this very helpful information. At the very least I have things to try. I understand this car's electrical is a bit complicated due to it being CANBUS. Thanks again. I will try this in the next day or two and report back findings.

 

[Handy Andy]

The CANBUS part, is why things can be reset and the vehicle can recover some of the systems to restore operation.

But that is a logic problem, requires power.

The car is a 2013, so the rust and corrosion have already demonstrated their head start in destroying the electrical.

So, you will have to skip the Can-bus and go straight for the electrical power and its ability to supply the electrical needs of the vehicle - including the CANBUS.

The wiring harness you'll have to trace along its route and locate what @scotman has pointed out - in both the interior of the vehicle and the engine compartment - fixing the rusted bolts and corroded wiring lugs used to terminate (ground to) to them so they can get power used by a device - to return to the battery thru the frame and body skin of the car - goes a long way in restoring operation.

 

[scotman]

The various controllers and relays require a very stable voltage. Even if it is just mv. Battery condition and if it has an internal short affects the supply of electricity. If the battery is shorting itself, you could have drops or spikes of electricity. When the alternator is turned on the system could have issues with trying to regulate output of the alternator. The electrical system is not designed for surges or starvation of electricity. Thats the best way to explain the situation i can think of.
The issues with the grounds is very straightforward. No ground equals no flow of power through that circuit. Weak/ dirty ground connection equals poor operation or very glitchy behavior.

 

[Handy Andy]

It might help us if you took a photo of the engine compartment - so we can then help you in tracking down areas that need attention.

To be fair, a lot has changed since 2013 - the MAF sensor has been changed to a MAP sensor - let alone a new nose job...

There is a RED cap over the Battery Positive terminal - that is where I would start - once the red cover is removed, it exposes the wiring, broken down into fused sections - with each section having a purpose and a place to go to route power.



The wiring above is from mine I own a 2018 - Fiesta - but the wiring was SOLDERED by me to help reduce Maintenace and prolong the electrical lifetime - not everyone can feel comfortable in doing this, but any sort of cleanup and repair helps you isolate the affected systems, so the real problems get solved first.

 

[Alex]

It might help us if you took a photo of the engine compartment - so we can then help you in tracking down areas that need attention.

To be fair, a lot has changed since 2013 - the MAF sensor has been changed to a MAP sensor - let alone a new nose job...

There is a RED cap over the Battery Positive terminal - that is where I would start - once the red cover is removed, it exposes the wiring, broken down into fused sections - with each section having a purpose and a place to go to route power.

View attachment 6872

The wiring above is from mine I own a 2018 - Fiesta - but the wiring was SOLDERED by me to help reduce Maintenace and prolong the electrical lifetime - not everyone can feel comfortable in doing this, but any sort of cleanup and repair helps you isolate the affected systems, so the real problems get solved first.

Yesterday I started with all of Scotman's suggestions. I took the front seat out, pulled the carpet back and investigated the ground connections there. Those looked pretty clean, but I brushed them up anyway, coated them with petroleum jelly. I also did the same to the ground connections behind the battery. Those were more corroded and I cleaned those up really nice, and coated them too. Next I did ALL the electrical connections around the battery, including all those you reference above. It was obvious to me that every connection is important, including the neutral, and all the fuse connections. I found more connections to clean beyond those as well. I spent 8 hours cleaning connections. I used a volt meter to measure resistance and I believe my efforts made a considerable difference in the car's circuitry.

I also investigated the battery. Suspiciously the battery voltage had dropped over night from 12.6 to 10, which was a little strange, (even if the battery is failing). While working on the car I put it on a charger. It charged up again just fine, but after all the work, putting it back in the car didn't fix the problem. Measuring impedence across the battery terminals yielded considerable resistance (>75mOhm). So I took it to the parts store for a load test and they concluded the same. It was holding charge, but was high resistance and had less than 30% life left. The battery was 4 years old. So I bought a new battery.

I put the battery in and tested it. First turn of the key made the same sounds and did not crank. Waited a moment and tried again. This time it started, but it gave me warnings on the display "Transmission Malfunction" and the check engine light came on. I let it run for a few minutes, and turned it off. Waited a few minutes, then tried again. This 3rd attempt no longer gave me the transmission error, but the check engine light is on and has stayed on. I let it run for 10 minutes to give a little energy back to the battery before shutting down again. I tried to get the codes with my reader, but I cannot get any codes from it. Not sure if something is wrong with my code reader... It scans and reports a VIN but says NO CODES..... Check engine light remains on.

Took for a test drive and within a few minutes the radio went POP very loud and the radio stopped working. At least it is running, but I have not fixed the radio problem yet. The AC and fan problems are not fixed either.

So I have the vehicle running, but the check engine light is on, and all other electrical problems still remain.

What else could be going on in this car?

What I would like to accomplish next:
1) Figure out why the check engine light is on
2) Rule out a more serious problem, electrical or otherwise
3) Fix the radio pop (or conclude it is a radio problem and nothing else)
4) Replace the failing fan switch resistor (don't know how yet)
5) Recharge the AC



Thanks for eveyone's help.

 

[Alex]

I found out how to fix the fan switch. Planning on doing this soon:

https://www.autozone.com/cooling-he...t-blower-motor-resistor-bmr001kit/1185404_0_0

 

[Alex]

I've been doing some more research on the radio situation, and it appears to be it's own problem, unrelated to the electrical of the car. Much more common than I thought. Also, it seems the radio problem can drain the battery even when the key isn't in the ignition. I might just have to go ahead and disconnect the radio and leave it disconnected.

 

[Alex]

I did some more research on the AC, and I've decided I will have a professional fix that for me for the reason Scotty describes here.

 

[scotman]

That four year old battery may have created some of those hard fails in the audio head unit. I would find an auto parts store that has an obd 2 scan tool that has enhanced capabilities such as abs, srs and the all important ability to get live stream data and view pid files! Those pid files should give you a precise idea of what is going on. Communication errors or failure is a sign that the power to that circuit is flaky. Given your coastal location, more grounds might need a cleaning! I would work in three hour shifts and then go directly to Mel's diner for twin lobster tails or about anything on the menu every day until i had it sorted out!

 

[Alex]

I took the car out again after sitting about 18 hours since the last test drive. Now the check engine light is magically gone. Maybe it needed stability in the electrical system with a few starts and stops and some rest before it cleared all the faulty electrical signals? I tried my cheapo scan tool again and still no codes, but gives the vin number, so it must be working. I will still have an auto parts store try their tool as well. But this would be a good explanation as to why there were no codes yesterday... Maybe?

Where do I find more ground wires?

I like your suggestion on the lobster tails at Mels, lol!

 

[scotman]

I genuinely love the Fort Myers- Naples area. Now that we have a mechanically functional Fiesta i would make sure that my ranging multi meter has a fresh battery and head over to the parts store that has that enhanced scan tool. Take pics of the screen displays if it doesn't have a print function to get the id numbers of the affected circuits.
Then you can begin to target the culprits.

 

[Handy Andy]

On your Scan tool, look for I/M Monitors

The tool should allow to let you scroll to see other than Read Code / Clear Codes and VIN - it should also have I/M monitors and MIL. MIL is Malfunction Indicator Light (or in some older books LAMP) - to tell you if the systems monitoring and tellnig you the Right information

• - if MIL is on, but the Tool sez it's supposed to be off
  • - the Vehicle MIL condition is the tell-tale.
  • IT means an earlier condition was set, it also told me to turn me on, I'm running diagnostics right now - so if I don't have any Pending DTC's I'll turn off soon.

You said you had a check engine light, now gone...

This is where I'M Monitors can give you more clues as to what is going wrong and how the system is trying to fix itself.

The I/M monitors check AC, EVAP, EGR, FUEL, IGNITION (Misfire), O2 (Oxygen Sensors) COMP (Comprehensive systems - not related to Emissions but function with them) Most of these are Emission quality checks and will show READY or NOT READY.

After a couple of drive cycles - or let it go for no more than a week, insert that Scan tool and bring up I/M again, and scroll thru those tests and see which are READY or NOT READY - ignore ones that say NA (Not Applicable or Not Available) - the ones that are NOT READY require more attention - more than likely they are the ones that will eventually cause more failures.

 

[Alex]

Ok, just got back from AutoZone. They said that if I cleared the codes they might not come back again--due to the electrical issues I had--but the tranmission might be an independent problem. It might need to go back to Ford.

Thoughts?

 

[Alex]

I genuinely love the Fort Myers- Naples area. ....

Yeah, it's pretty wonderful if you like the outdoors. They say you're either a golfer or a fisherman down here. And I agree. I am a fisherman and get out to the water maybe once per week, or more if I have time. It's a boater's paradise. I lived in SoCal for going on 2 decades, and that was great too. But the weather here is more tropical, the wilderness is more wild, the wildlife is intense and alive everywhere you look. These days if I get too much heat/sun I have to hide in the AC for a few more days to recover, but it's hard not to love it all the same. Only major issue in this area is red tide, but recent changes have been made to Lake O's water releases down the Caloosahatchee by the Army Corp of Engineers, and there are further plans to restore the Everglades water flow back closer to what it once was. Hopefully the worst of red tide is behind us.

 

[Handy Andy]

A lot of the Clutch Actuator errors are CAUSED by poor battery connections.

They're unable to complete the cycle because the power to them drops dramatically when the battery is not helping to stabilize the power load.

So, the case of the transmission grounds it, but the power wires to the Actuators need to be good, so check those connections to the transmission mount and do what you can for them - if you think you've solved the problem - then don't disturb them if you don't have to.

 

[Alex]

Would you reset the codes and start clean now? Because I know mechanics don't like it when you clear the codes before they can look at it themselves, but we do plan to drive the car for awhile before taking it in. Or is it better to just leave the codes and drive it as is?

Are the connections to the transmission under the car? Do I have to lift it to get a visual inspection?

 

[Handy Andy]

Are the connections to the transmission under the car? Do I have to lift it to get a visual inspection?

Actually, they are closer to the main center line of the motor and transmission, as in - just by the bell-housing the curved shape - like a bell, that connects the engine to the motor - so it's EMBEDDED in the center - under the battery and it's case that holds it.

It requires some disassembly. You have to disconnect and remove the battery and part of the Air Cleaner (Air box where the Snorkel goes to the Engine) to get access to it.

Lifting it on a hoist can be easier in some cases but not many people have such a device at home to fix their cars.

is it better to just leave the codes and drive it as is?

IN many instances - the "Check Engine Light" will be on for quite a while after these codes get "set" they're in memory - but the DTC's that caused them will stop. The permanent ones are failures that are looked at by the PCM and rechecks them on a set time interval to see if they recreate once a condition is met.

IF it doesn't set a DTC from it, it doesn't let it go right away but this condition didn't set a code to the PCM then moves on.

Thats why I asked you to use your Scan Tool to look for at review the I/M monitors - those will be the tell-tale of the condition the vehicle is in - READY means all system tests it uses - passed, NOT READY - means something is causing the hang-up and makes the PCM keep checking - and even keep the Check Engine or Orange Wrench light on longer to remind the owner there are still things that need your attention.

The repeated clear clean condition can reset the engine light for you - so if it's not on now, those codes can be cleared at a later time - or just pull the battery cable and most of them do disappear once the conditions that set them, have passed without resetting the codes and those DTCs' - it can clear the codes knowing that they are not being repeated since then.

.

 

[Handy Andy]

You have other grounds in the passenger compartment - and in the Sill - front kick panel - on both the Passenger side and as you found, the Drivers side. There is one even in the center from a harness

In the engine compartment - the grounds are on side panels for the lighting and one main one for the Fan is below - under the car - beneath the transmission side - on the frame - inside from that left wheel and CV axle

These grounds run from/to various parts of the dash, provide grounds for the Body control module as well as returns from systems controlled by it as well as signals from the engine, Fuel system and even the electrical system (taillight brakes and rear defogger wiper and washer.

So if the connections look clean, are they? It does not hurt to back off the bolts and retighten them back to these lugs they are hold-downs for and provide grounds to, these devices - the symptoms you describe are from age and (can I say this without being offensive) neglect (hey, many don't know that) from water and rain, salt and snow. Who knew - these grounds would be there by those places you drag this outside in and on the carpet - so if touching the ground point even damages the lug (Brittle or corroded) - it really is not your fault but is does show that many of your problems were due to similar things you found outside in the engine compartment. It was only a matter of time.

I'm currently working with a fleet of vehicles that have similar fates - their leaking batteries has eaten thru harness wiring - that the plastic looks ok, but the connections are shot - eaten away by the acids - amazingly they still run and work - but the secondary systems many rely on, are slowly dying from the exposure to many conditions and their seals - although effective - are not infallible. Radio and Sync, being secondary, are some of the most impacted