2011 Fiesta SE Manual trans fluid change

[CRINGE MEISTER]

I am trying to replace my transmission fluid and am not sure about the drain bolt, I have read other threads, looked for manuals with no clear answer, I did see a picture with what I believe is their drain bolt out, but some people say that there is only one bolt to drain and fill. The fill bolt is clearly the black hex bit, but i belive the rusted bolt under might be the drain bolt, I will leave a picture, any information is greatly appreciated!

 

[LionsTooth]

I do not have stick in my Fiesta...but I have had many sticks. That is likely the plug for the fill and set fluid level. Fluid level is likely up to the bottom of the hole....fill until it comes out of the hole and replace the plug. The drain plug must be at the lowest point of the gearbox....probably looks just like the filler plug. Others will chime in, too.

 

[scotman]

The drain plug is under the plastic cover for the shift cables.
The filler plug is at the left rear of the transmission case. Its easier to see and remove if you pull out the battery and the protective plastic box it sets into. The plug has a retainer pin that you must remove first.

 

[CRINGE MEISTER]

Scotsman, is the lower of the two bolts the drain bolt, I thought the black one was the fill bolt for checking the level, and the one under could possibly be the drain plug? Thank you!

 

[scotman]

Yup. I did new output shaft seals a couple of years ago. I dont recall if it was a 10m or 8 m hex required to get it out.in any case i have found that the entire amount of fluid wont just run out on its own. So, 2 quarts of the proper spec synthetic gear oil is enough to be safe. If you have the battery and the plastic surround removed, you should still be able to see some fluid pooled in the case if you have a strong flashlight.
When I last did the seals, i didn't bother to pull out the lower plug. It was a pointess hassle for a known "mostly empty" case.
If you have a leak of gear oil, the culprit is most likely to be the output shaft seals. At 4$ each (or less) their primary task is holding in about $50 worth of gear oil! So, do the math, guy's. Do seals when you change the gear oil.
This is an extra seal i keep on hand "just in case".
National #710798.

 

[CRINGE MEISTER]

Thank you Scotman!

 

[scotman]

Did everything go ok ? I wish that I would have done a gear oil change sooner than when the right output shaft seal had failed.
The filler plug was very difficult to remove after 9 years in place.
Otherwise it was a piece of cake.

 

[CRINGE MEISTER]

I still have not done it yet, I was waiting for my vocational school instructor, he said he would find the manual before doing it to be safe, he went to ford over Christmas and came back with nothing. He’s telling me to just return the fluid but I will probably just do it on my own.

 

[CRINGE MEISTER]

Did everything go ok ? I wish that I would have done a gear oil change sooner than when the right output shaft seal had failed.
The filler plug was very difficult to remove after 9 years in place.
Otherwise it was a piece of cake.

Finally did it! went good besides not being able to collect the oil well, doing it on the floor was a bit of a pain but I managed. I lifted the back of the car to get more oil out too, It shifts like almost brand new now. Thank you for your help!

 

[TexasTJ]

Hi Guys ! Sure hope Scotman is still following this forum, his clarification on the Fill & Drain Ports for the 5-Speed Manual Transmission on the Fiesta Se made more sense than any I had read anywhere else. To start out, I've got a 2015 Ford Fiesta Se, with the 1.6 liter Duratec Engine and a 5-speed Manual Transmission (now 135,000 miles). After seeing one of the shaft output seals weap a litte bit, combined with louder than normal gear whine, I decided it was time to change the MTX oil. Fortunately, I had planned to do this in 2 steps, topping it off now, and then doing a complete change later when I had more time. Based on incorrect advice elsewhere, I removed what Scotman clarified was the Drain Plug, thinking it was the Fill Plug. Dang, I went from a low oil level to 1/4 cup even lower. It gets worse, I removed the Battery & Plastic Battery Box (expecting to see the Fill Plug), but just don't see it. Did it change from the 2011 model to the 2015 model ? Maybe I'm staring right at it and don't realize ? I'll include (3) pics, the first of course is of the Drain Plug in the protective pastic box for the shifter cables (same as Cringe Meister posted but with a portion of the plastic box still attached to the engine). The second and third pic are what I see after the Battery & Plastic Battery Box are removed, from slightly different angles. Hope one of you guys can steer me right on this, thanks for the help !!!

 

[Handy Andy]

That breather assembly seems to be the only "port" we have now.

The Fill plug, by what most do to these things now, is just to "top off" - Ford removed any Drain and Fill plugs we used to know of, and the locations of where they existed. Their thinking - not ours. (Well, if you do have that Differential bolt, that would be the "total" drain plug, but you didn't read that here...)

In other Forums they have suggested the user "vacuum" out the old oil as much as possible and then refill with new gearbox oil up to 4mm BELOW the fill hole (plug) - @scotman has the "zip tie" trick - cut to length - dipstick to check as needed.

So if it takes 2 quarts, you've got too much in, just a little off the top for me, is what I do.

 

[TexasTJ]

Thanks, Handy Andy !

Well, your counsel is the same that I've heard elsewhere (and also the same as Cringe Meister in this thread above). That is, the single 8mm Internal Hex Plug is both the Fill & the Drain for the Fiesta S/Se (but not ST) Manual Transmission fluid.

If that's true, it's a mystery why a 1/4 cup of fluid drained out after I opened that plug, given the fact that I was almost certainly low on fluid after 135,000 miles (as well as experiencing a weaping axle seal).

Any thoughts on how that may have happened ? If it helps, I was working on the engine at room temp (it had sat overnight and not been run). Does the car need to be in neutral (or any specific gear) for the fluid change (maybe what I was seeing was fluid that was trapped above the port, whereas the level in the gearbox was below the port) ? You mention having changed this yourself, did this happen to you ?

This is why I'm nervous about draining all of the fluid out of that plug, if you (or anyone else) has any ideas, I'd love to hear them ! Thank you !

 

[Handy Andy]

Any idea on the condition of that fluid - as in cloudy? That may indicate "water entry or immersion" as in flood damage.

But you are also aware of the upper breather unit? Looks like, by the residual oil "drips" and stain around it, they may have used the breather assembly as a method to refill - only to find that putting too much oil in might not be a good thing.

If you can find this breather plug, again...

It's worth it to investigate.​

The nice thing about the Manual versus the Automatics, the seals are not under a lot of stress, so the drips you encountered thru a seal, they may have compensated for by adding oil (of what type? Unknown) thru the breather assembly - nothing wrong with that, as long as you know how clean the tube and container is, if it's dirty, that stuff just got dumped into the box along with that oil.

In many instances, the oil simply foams - but can erupt - using the easier outlets, the breather usually shows this first. But that foam also comes with a lack of volume and lubricity because of the air left in the oil - so that may induce a wear condition caused by lack of a surface film to prevent metal to metal contact or at least, the gap in the rubber seal - the foam coats but loses volume when it sits. So the surfaces can become dry even through they get wetted - but by the foam, not the oil itself.

The CV seal fail, the inner transaxle side, can mean many things - usually one side fails due to a "torque" or twist on a mount that placed the transaxle in a off-axis torque / shear moment - and in some older IB5 manuals, that is also why those end cap bearings show such knackery - because the case distorted - (literally bended) for that inertial moment. Much like how a race cars body and frame twist when the car charges off the line - the mounts and their flexing are at their limits, and the wheels are now at theirs - where-ever and what-ever can take up a torque - gets the shear moment.

 

[TexasTJ]

Any idea on the condition of that fluid - as in cloudy? That may indicate "water entry or immersion" as in flood damage.

But you are also aware of the upper breather unit? Looks like, by the residual oil "drips" and stain around it, they may have used the breather assembly as a method to refill - only to find that putting too much oil in might not be a good thing.

If you can find this breather plug, again...
View attachment 8262
It's worth it to investigate.​

The nice thing about the Manual versus the Automatics, the seals are not under a lot of stress, so the drips you encountered thru a seal, they may have compensated for by adding oil (of what type? Unknown) thru the breather assembly - nothing wrong with that, as long as you know how clean the tube and container is, if it's dirty, that stuff just got dumped into the box along with that oil.

In many instances, the oil simply foams - but can erupt - using the easier outlets, the breather usually shows this first. But that foam also comes with a lack of volume and lubricity because of the air left in the oil - so that may induce a wear condition caused by lack of a surface film to prevent metal to metal contact or at least, the gap in the rubber seal - the foam coats but loses volume when it sits. So the surfaces can become dry even through they get wetted - but by the foam, not the oil itself.

The CV seal fail, the inner transaxle side, can mean many things - usually one side fails due to a "torque" or twist on a mount that placed the transaxle in a off-axis torque / shear moment - and in some older IB5 manuals, that is also why those end cap bearings show such knackery - because the case distorted - (literally bended) for that inertial moment. Much like how a race cars body and frame twist when the car charges off the line - the mounts and their flexing are at their limits, and the wheels are now at theirs - where-ever and what-ever can take up a torque - gets the shear moment.

 

[TexasTJ]

Nice analysis, huge thanks, Handy Andy !!! My bad, should have mentioned, I'm the original owner so I'm 100 % aware of the service history. No MTX Oil was ever added, and the current oil shows no sign of cloudiness, foaming or water dilution.

I'm very grateful for your help, just to confirm, the close-up that you're showing is actually a breather plug/hose connection, which can be removed ? If this is true, my thought process is as follows:

1) Starting with the normal procedure, I'll open the lower 8mm internal hex Fill/Drain plug, and suction out as much as I can (hopefully close to 2 quarts).

2) Using that same 8mm internal hex Fill/Drain plug, I'll attempt to refill the gearbox with close to 2 quarts of fresh Motorcraft XT-M5-QS full synthetic MTX Fluid.

3) If for some reason I fall well short of the 2 quarts goal, I'll open the higher breather plug/hose connection (underneath the battery box) and add the balance of MTX fluid.

Does this sound right ? Once again, huge thanks for your help, it's enormously appreciated !!!

 

[Handy Andy]

Sorry, after all that - I forgot to mention my own experiences were a lot less - but the issue of how to get it out? I used a Mighty-Vac unit and the one man bleeder setup in it - only I used a couple of 90-degree vacuum line fittings to make a bottle out of a peanut butter jar.

Size of the Hose tubing was 1/4" clear - fit the hole and even with some snake effort, was able to even drop it in further to get close to the bottom - towards that Shift bolt (simply follow the tube length in finger width) - is what I'm talking about
A soldering iron with a PC-Board (1/8 to 3/16" shaft size) tip usually provides a small enough diameter hole to let the 90-degree fitting fit into the lid, the other side had the same - only the "teeth or gator ribs" - when the lids' plastic melt was still soft, was providing the seal.

I pushed in the fitting and let it set - letting those gators act as a seal. Pinching as needed and a BIC lighter to help.

The Hose can siphon off oil once you start the pull, the hose can be used and the oil in it to weigh it out (that siphon effort) the oil in the line, which then vacuums out the oil in the gearbox as long as the hose is low enough and you keep the jar below the gearbox - the oil will siphon out - slow - so a warm/hot day to help thin the oil in it, helps with this Just be patient.

Once I had 16 oz full, then emptied the jar then went back until it cavitated. But that didn't show much debris, just the change and some "darkening" caused by the filings in the suspension - but then I just put in a 1 and 1/2 Quart of the synthetic, which started to come out of that hole trying to fill it.

So I let it drip - this was done on a level surface and then used the mighty vac and with two pumps, about 4ozs were extracted and the drip flow stopped, so I called it good and left it.

That Breather hose is a plastic shaft, there is an O-ring seal on it, but if lifted gently - can be pried off with little incident. Cannot say that for the older IB5's from previous but I do know - that fitting drops in about 1" into the box and the hole size is about 3/16" at the most.

 

[TexasTJ]

Thanks, Handy Andy !!! This is helpful, I'm still fascinated by that Breather Hose, a diameter close to 3/16" should be large enough. I'm inclined to try that 3-step process that I had articulated earlier, and in the event that I can't get much Fluid into the gearbox through the 8mm internal hex Fill/Drain plug, I'll check out the Breather. Should be an adventure, I appreciate your help !

 

[Handy Andy]

Just so you know, that breather is not really the route I took, everything I got out of the gearbox was thru the silly fill plug. The 1/4" tubing snaked thru that.

The "Extra" overflow you experienced could have been from them trying to fill thru that breather.

The Breather on mine I've had to put on a couple of times - seems to want to pop off so I did some looking around and found out the hose was short! (How? I don't know! AT versus MT?) so the breather itself kept pulling off the radiator clip - It's how I even got to know about it. The 3/16" size is the hole on the case - so the 1/4" tubing was thru the filler/check plug.

Just saved the weaved abrasion sleeve and replaced the tubing with a slightly longer 1-2" length the sleeve then slid over that.

 

[TexasTJ]

Good to know, thanks Handy Andy ! I'll let you know how it pans out !

 

[Handy Andy]

While you're down there on that section of the shifter cable gimbals...

​

Pull off the E-clip and gently tug the big triangle-shaped shifter so you can work on the bushing that this metal behemoth piece rests on - that bushing rests in a shaft that rusts and bulges out against that pivot shaft - makes it harder and harder to move that metal mass of the shifter (this one "throws" the forks onto and off-of the synchronizers and moves the gear set while the little guy moves the rod the forks sit on) - to line up to their respective synchronized gear - front and back pulls one off, to move the next one on - sort of thing. This mass of metal "absorbs" vibration and lets you move the gearset without that "clanking" being transferred into your hand - and provides the mass to reduce the vibration the cable would otherwise transfer onto the shifter knob and fatigue your hand and the transmission and engine vibrated.

You can see where this bushing is part of a pivot of a fulcrum - the larger throw of the gimbal at the opposite end, transfers the torque thru the distance it has to travel - onto a narrower distance - multiplying the force to move the synchronizer gear sets onto and off of their drive shaft.

So if you can lubricate or put some oil onto this and let it work in - eventually this pivot point will release so when you release the E-clip that metal can be tugged out and let you lubricate that shaft and the bushing better - letting the system slide that metal mass around on the bushing and let you shift a lot easier.

When I see rust like that - can't help but think of this as to how I saved my transmission one day doing the same - oiling that bushing.