2015 fiesta electrical issues no crank no fuel pump

[Fuelsmoke1]

Hey gang. Need some help before I haul to the dealer.
I bought this 2015 fiesta not running. Its a 1.6L 5 speed manual car. I was told it was running and driving and then just wouldn't start one day. They tried a lot of redneckery and I don't really know exactly what they did do. They did have a locksmith come program a new key because they thought it had a key immobilizer issue. When I got it when key ON nothing lit up in dash. After testing all fuses under hood and in car, found 15A ignition fuse popped in the inside fuse block. Now I have dash function and things are happening. Problem is, no fuel pump when key on, no crank.
So battery and connections are good. Grounds on engine and car are good. Starter will crank the engine if jumped from underneath.
When I turn key to start it says push brake and clutch. I push only brake and not clutch I don't get another message. A relay in the inner fuse panel clicks when I try to engage starter with key. So I think there's a problem between brake and clutch switches. I checked clutch switch, no power to either side, it may just connect ground but I'm not sure at this point. But to eliminate the clutch switch I unplugged it and put jumper in. Still no crank. Ignition switch is putting out signal to start. Not sure it's getting beyond the fuse panel inside or perhaps the PCM itself.
I replaced a fuse and relay in the outer panel, forgot the numbers but are apparently common failure points with these cars. Didn't help my situation.
So at this point, I am not sure what to do. A question I have, if immobilizer is the issue, how could I verify that? I get no fuel pump when key is turned on, and no crank at all. Will immobilizer make that happen or is there something else I should be looking at?
Another thing, it has code for throttle body unit and throttle pedal and coolant temp high. But it's cold.
I usually work on older cars, Ive dealt with enough electronics over the years as a diesel tech and on my own stuff but I'm just not sure what or how to look at this security system. I suspect it may be at least part of the problem??
I'm going to go hug my 55 Ford customline and see if I can get some clarity 😂
Sorry for the long drawn out post, hoping to clear up the first 50 questions I'd get about checking common things.

 

[Handy Andy]

As things may go - in the former Manual cars I've owned - the START switch - the one you press the clutch down all the way to engage - grounds to frame, but if you have no power, then a MAIN relay or the wire that routes to the STARTER relay to GROUND that wire - would show 12 to power the coil and 0V when the pedal is all the way to the floor and the switch is grounding that wire. So one wire would have 12V battery, while the other is left to 0V - so when the switch shorts that completes the circuit and the relay makes the solenoid and start move.

So you just have to retrace back to the starter relay - now I'm not sure but have you inspected the steering wheel and tumbler assembly? The thing uses a "lockout" that lets you twist the key all the way to start ONCE - then locks out any further attempts until you twist the key all the way to off.

This "lockout" may provide a clue as to you may have a relay in the steering column behind the clock-spring and switch assemblies - it rests back there as a means to force the starter solenoid to engage when it's circuit is completed to ground. Else that start relay is back at the main fuse panel in the engine compartment - but the European ones have the relay nestled in the steering column behind the wheel, switch and clock-spring.

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know about a relay behind the steering wheel. Great engineering there 😂. I do get the start signal off the ignition switch every time I hit it. I do think there may be a problem with brake and clutch pedal switches. If I don't touch pedals and try to start, center display says push brake and clutch to start. If I push brake that message doesn't pop up. But it doesn't seem to care if I push clutch or not. Also concerning is the lack of fuel pump. I feel like I have one common enemy causing all of this together but I'm not sure. More testing. All I can do is prove it out.

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

As I dig into this,I have another issue that may be the cause of all of this. When I turn key on, display says engine malfunction. I was clearing it and ignoring it. I checked with my scanner and it says throttle pedal is issue. I checked live data and it thinks throttle pedal is at 99.3% no matter the pedal position. I removed pedal/sensor and tested it, it's not changing ohms when pedal is moved. Safe to say it needs a new pedal assembly. Also it claims to have issues with throttle body unit itself. I'm going to get the new pedal first and see if anything changes. It could be that when the pedal was failing it threw a code for the throttle body unit because they were out of sync so to speak.
I will keep plugging away at this rig. We'll get to the bottom of this thing yet!

 

[Handy Andy]

It may be why it won't start, but would still let it crank and crank...

The throttle body doesn't give a resistive reading - it gives - sends, a signal of output to tell the PCM it's position and compares it to the accelerators own position

There is a thread or two about the throttle body - see if a search on this sites forums can can offer some help!

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

I will get the new pedal w/sensor and see what happens. I can't get the starter to engage with the key. Wiring under the hood looks undamaged. I have found anything loose or disconnected. I figured I won't do anything to the throttle body unit until I can get it running. I question if I don't have a PCM issue. I wonder if there's a service that could take my PCM and check it out and repair or replace it if needed without involving the dealer. I'm not sure it will come to that but it's possible I suppose.

 

[Mercurios2011]

That relay that clicks inside the glove box, is it gray and some what bigger than the rest ?

if so by all means replace it , it has to do with the pcm ,there is also a fuel pump relay aside the fuse under hood compartment ,

what is odd, is that you are getting power in some places and not others

have you tried poping the clutch in 2d gear ?.. is a very long shot specially since there is no power at fuel pump, but the jerk sometimes looses what ever is stuck

can't hurt to try right?..

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

Well I hadn't tried bump starting it. I did crank the engine by jumping the stater solenoid and it turns the engine junk fine. Just not getting signal from the cockpit. I will try replacing that relay. Cheap enough even if it doesn't work. There was a 2nd one in the car but both look to be older. I'm not sure what the PO did to it. They had kick panels off, cover I der steer column off, and the cover around the column too. Looks they got into everything, probably trying to find the issue. I'm just afraid they did something foolish and fried a key component, like the PCM.
I did swap around fuel relay with another one. Relay has power to it, just not clicking on. The ignition fuse was popped when I got it. It had no power to dash then. I replaced it and got a lot working but there's obviously more wrong.
I never have easy problems 😂

 

[Mercurios2011]

maybe the ignition switch itself?.. it's a 20 dollar piece of plastic , part number I have is CSC2642 and connector is PTC 1725

also the electronic steering assist fuse is liked to the anti theft system, wipers and ignition (21) inside glove box

is there a blinking red light on steering column indicating working passive theft system ?

other option would be to disable the immobilizer system , but I know for a fact that's 100 - 200 dollar job in itself depending who does it

https://www.startmycar.com/us/ford/fiesta/info/fusebox/2015

maybe that link helps

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

I have tested the switch and it works properly. I verified all fuses are good and ate allowing power through. I tested everything possible with key on with a multimeter to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
As for the anti theft system, I have no idea. I don't see an anti theft light in the dash at all. I assume it's working because it says key not detected if I take the reader off the key switch and try to start it, the display in center of dash says key not detected. Other than that, I don't know where the light itself it's, if it has one. I tried finding pictures of a 15 fiesta instrument panel to see where it should 6, and I found nothing. I read somewhere that it might it have a light at all. And that seems like the case here. When I turn key on and all the dash warning light come on, there's no theft light. I honestly have no idea if the anti theft system is active and working? It may well be my whole problem.
I don't know if there's a scanner I could buy that could read that system? I have to get the throttle pedal and try it but honestly I am getting close to needing the dealer. And I really hate the thought of that.

 

[Mercurios2011]

I took video of mine but says file to large to upload , is right above fuel gauge , it blinks intermittent

what if and this is a BIG what if, when they came to "reprogram" key that ignition fuse was blown and they did not see it, so when they perform the procedure ,

it just didn't married the key to the pcm? and or took it out sync from the original key

one thing I learned from flashing my car was , to make sure all fuses and relays are good and there is constant steady 13.v to the battery , via booster ,charger or simply using a larger battery with thick jump

cables, the slightest drop in voltage can actually brick/lock the PCM when performing any procedure to it , so if that ignition fuse was blown the "reprograming" might never actually happened

or in fact something was damage in doing so .

find you a local tuner , they can see if the pcm is in fact bricked or the checksums are corrupted , least you will rule the pcm out altogether..

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

Well that's certainly a good possibility that the key or the anti theft is not right in one way or another. When it has key reader off the switch it says key not detected. And it doesn't say that when it is in place with "correct" key. But, it's just saying it detects key, nothing but the car running really confirms it's the right key.
As for the anti theft light, I don't have a working light in the instrument panel. There may be one in there. If so it's not working at all. Nothing flashes. No theft light shows when key is turned on prior to trying to start.
I have fuel pedal on the way. I'll see if I can find anyone around here that can look into the key programming and make sure the PCM is working.
Thanks for everyone's assistance here. I really appreciate it!

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

Hey gang. Sorry it's been so long since I replied. Has some family issues out of state and was back and forth a bit. Then behind on everything.
So a little update on the fiesta. I bought a new throttle pedal. It didn't do anything different. Still no crank no start. No fuel pump activated when key on.
I had a locksmith stop by and check out my keys. They are programmed correctly. He noticed that the anti theft light on top of dash against windshield never blinks when key is off. He thinks it should blink periodically to let you know the anti theft system is working.
Also his scanner showed that several modules in the car come up as failed. I couldn't see that. He said that seemed odd because the PCM seems like it is communicating. I found some video on ground issues I cleaned up main ground on strut tower by battery and 2 smaller grounds behind the battery. That also did nothing different.
I think at this point,I am considering loading forescan on my laptop and see if I can start checking these "failed" modules. I'm thinking maybe I have a main power or ground situation, or maybe the PCM is fried and causing all of this.
When key is on the center display says engine malfunction. Every time. I think I pulled up codes before for the throttle position sensor, in tbi? The throttle pedal sensor, coolant temp sensor, which I replaced and made no change.
I'm getting close to junking it or taking it to the dealer for more in depth computer diagnostics. I'd rather not do either. Hopefully I find something to make a little ground pretty soon. I don't have time to work on this non stop. Hoping to find anything that makes it do something different. It's becoming more trouble than it's worth to me.

 

[Handy Andy]

As you already know - there are two switches on the Brake pedal, and two on the Clutch.

The Brake has two; one is the Stop lamps, the other one communicates the status of the brake pedal is pushed - it would work with just one switch but the problem is the one switch has to SEND power to the lamps, while another uses GROUND (Detect) to tell the system something changed because it sends power to that switch it's in a wait state, then when grounded - tells the system of the status change.

The two switches on the Clutch pedal - one is grounded when the pedal is fully retracted and at rest, then opens once the pedal is off it's rest - this is the "idle up" that makes the throttle more sensitive when driving and when you move from a stopped position.

The other switch is at the end of the throw - that one grounds a relay that forces power to the starter.

So one switch must change from Ground to Open, the Other from Open to Ground - when you operate the clutch the pedal has to be all the way to the Floor for it to make the relay work to even make the Starter go - so if you've checked cables and can prove 12V is all the way down there - the issue becomes the status change wires and their switches and wire that powers the solenoid to engage using the Relay - with the COIL side grounding using that switch you ground it with - is done when you push the pedal all the way down.

So to keep this brief, the Relay engages, using the clutch pedal all the way to the floor switch, with the "proof" of the effort being the other switch changes from Grounded to Open - but does not complete the starter circuit - the Wires to that all - the - way - to - the - floor - one, does.

The Relay is only part of the circuit - the PCM sends the OK_to_Start power to the Starters solenoid - so the PCM is checking for the Proof - and will only power the Starters solenoid - once the switches are correctly set.

Hope this helps you get this ball rolling....are the switches new - have you checked them with an ohm-meter to verify?

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

Here's a funny thing I noticed about the pedals. If I turn key to start, and not push pedal, dash display says to push brake and clutch to start. But if I turn key to start and push only brake, it says nothing. I had checked the clutch switch, I don't think it had any power, but I was doing things alone so holding brake pedal and turning key while holding test light or multimeter wasn't handy. I did unplug the lower clutch switch and put a jumper in the plug so in effect you won't need to push pedal to let starter work. And no starter function like that or if I pushed clutch pedal.
But when I turn key from off to on, I get no fuel pump action at all. And some weird stuff, the locksmith pulled faults from the car that I couldn't see. Body control, Instrument panel control, audio control, abs control, global positioning module, restraint module and PCM modules show as failed on his scanner.
I have pulled CEL codes for coolant temp sensor, accelerator pedal and throttle position sensor. I replaced temp sensor and throttle pedal and they still won't clear.
I'm wondering if the PCM is junk and it's causing all these issues. I don't want to throw parts at it but I'm getting to a point where if I don't get some sort of results here pretty soon I'm just going to haul it to a junkyard and get my $500 and be done with it. I don't like to give up but I only have so much time and everything I have done so far has done nothing at all.
I'm thinking about getting to the fuel pump wire harness and see if the pump is getting power but maybe it's dead. But I really am thinking maybe there's a central issue like the PCM that has this thing shut down. I don't really know to trust the PCM but I'm considering buying a used one and trying. Guy that did the key programming says he can sync the parts so I should be able to get it running with his help if it needs a PCM.

 

[scotman]

The scan tool indicated a “failure” or was it a “communication failure” ? A communication failure is not necessarily an indication of a failed component. It is often an indication of voltage loss and or bad ground condition. Most of the BCM’ and other components have very minute but precise voltage requirements that will be interpreted as a communication signal failure if the voltage required is not met.

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

I'm not sure what "failure" indicated. Im not familiar with the tool or software it was using.. he just said it was strange that so many modules showed failure. I don't think he was saying the modules were bad. I think it was more that he thought something was going on that may be causing it. So I was thinking maybe it just had a common problem that would make that many modules show up like that. Either communication or actual fails

 

[Handy Andy]

This may be a simple blown or bad connection on a wire...

Wow...I realize that not many people use testers anymore - they simply use what works and voila! Eureka and Hooray! - It Works...

To me this looks promising because the system is telling you something in the display. The "Press Clutch and Brake" and then when you press Brake is doesn't show anything - just means there is no programmed message to appear because something is not getting power so it can't tell you anything about it because it doesn't know how to.

So to me that means Fuses; as in; may or may not have been blown - but you do have two blocks - one in the engine compartment and one by the glovebox - the one fuse-block (Engine) sends and powers the other or makes power available for distribution thru the BCM inside the passenger compartment - which includes SYNC, Instrument Panel - SRS - and the Climate control and any accessories like heated seats, or rear window defog and loops back power to the PCM for Fuel Pump - lights and even the timing for the turn signal and Hazard- the BCM needs power from the main fuses to power those sections because it monitors them and also provides the REGULATION power for several systems including the Throttle control - it supplies the 5V the pedal uses to send that information to the Throttle body = thru the PCM.

So to me this is a cascade failure - but may be something as simple as a pulled relay or bad relay - unable to supply power to be distributed - due to a major failure somewhere in the electrical - I wish I could give more info on how to isolate it but I don't have your car in front of me to help with this.

One thing @scotman is trying to point out is the failure can be from it's inability to use the CAN-BUS system to initiate any sort of "Hello? Anyone Here?" moment to find those modules - that may take some time and a battery charger on the battery to supply the power to give it time to know something is out there - especially when you don't know what the previous owner did to it to make it act this way when you got it.

One of the main things I would check is to see what can get power from the key when you just turn it on - can you get BRAKE light? (I mean check behind the car do they work?) Any turn signal?

Have you tried bringing up the HEC mode (that one where you push the trip reset button and hold it down while you turn the key to ON) That mode can give you a lot of information - you just have to cycle thru the steps to see if the system has a heartbeat. It also tries to find systems becasue it's using the CAN-BUS to talk to those systems to find error codes like stored DTC which it can display as codes under a FORD system language but you can google them to help find these reasons for those codes.

Then, even take a simple touch tip probe circuit tester and put the clip on ground and start tapping those Fuse tabs with it's tip to see it light up and show where Power is going and look at the Owners manual to find the Fuse, and it's purpose - then by the lighting that tester does, will show you along the way, you may find the culprit is a bad or blown wire in the fuseblock - because the system appears dead but it isn't getting power due to either a blown relay or bad blown wire to feed the sub-system fuse to distribute power.

 

[Fuelsmoke1]

This is what I've thought all along. It's going to be a simple thing, like a power wire not connected, or fuse blown,etc. Probably when it's found it will be one of those deals where I can't believe it took me so long to find it.
What I have done, is I have checked every fuse in both fuse boxes with a multimeter. Unless something changed since I did that, they should be good. But I will double-check for sure. I have swapped couple relays around. I forgot which ones at this point but it was something common that is an issue like starter or fuel pump. I have some extra relays from other projects. I will start selecting relays that have anything to do with anything important and swap them one at a time to see if I get any different results anywhere. I will however like you suggested and simply see what works and what doesn't. That's a good place to start.
I'll never know what previous owners did so all I can do is move forward. Id like to get this dealt with and put it behind me.
I drive a Dodge ram. The engine bay fuse box, called a TIPM, recently started having issues. It made some stuff not work, like AC clutch, airbag module etc. So with TIPM replaced all is well again. It's one of those deals with this car except it's probably not literally the fuse box, but something important that isn't getting activated due to a simple issue. Now to find it.

 

[Handy Andy]

Well, remember that you see the TOP of those fuses, so you can't see the wires underneath. So the checker simply helps you light your way thru the fuse block and locate the "dead" feeders - where either the system that should have power - doesn't, due to a broken wire - or the relay that clicks on or off - that powers that set of fuses, or even the branch feed buss - may be the culprit.

So if you've use the 12V setting and saw voltage - remember that the circuit tester provides a bulb - a filament lamp - as a LOAD across the fuse circuit and it's power source - so if you see 12V on a high-impedance multi-tester - check and verify it can also provide power under LOAD as in pulls some current thru it to light that light.

In my GALLERY of photos (Search it for Handy Andy) I do show a set of RELAYS that schematically show N.O. and N.C. and which number of those contacts connects to the coil, and the switched contacts - it may help you locate a Relay that can be retrofitted in there.